Insight phono section

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rkeir

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Insight phono section
« on: 23 Jul 2008, 12:10 am »
Frank: Any comments on how the new Insight phono section compares to that of the T-8? This is relevant to me as I was thinking about sending my Superpas 4i in for the T-8 upgrade when the Insight announcement was made, and records are what I listen to most. Since I have a couple of Dynaco PAT-5's laying around, I'm considering sending one of those in instead for the Insight conversion. That leads me to two other questions. Is there any audible degradation by keeping the old selector switch? (I would like to have two phono inputs.)  Also, what's the deadline for getting a unit to you before the price increase? Thanks.

avahifi

Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #1 on: 23 Jul 2008, 11:15 am »
Actually, there are some things I would like to try with the original Super Pas 4i and I don't have one available.

So, if you are willing to try an experiment, send in your Super Pas 4i and I will work on it at no charge.  I suspect the results will be very favorable.

Call me at 651-330-9871 first please.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Matt__P

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Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #2 on: 23 Jul 2008, 02:15 pm »
Got anything you wanna try with a small chassis T7. I'm local and can bring it right over :wink:

avahifi

Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #3 on: 23 Jul 2008, 04:03 pm »
Sorry, the ideas are not applicable to the T7 preamps.

Frank

yeldarb

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Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #4 on: 23 Jul 2008, 05:03 pm »
Frank, if Rkeir should not be interested, I would let you "play with" my 4i with the transformer upgrade.

rkeir

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Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #5 on: 23 Jul 2008, 05:40 pm »
Frank: Thanks for the generous offer. Confirming our conversation from this morning, I'll box it up and send it in. Thanks again.

yeldarb

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Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #6 on: 23 Jul 2008, 06:04 pm »
a day late and a dollar short  :lol:

rkeir and Frank, please post after you play.  I would be interested to know what improvement is possible, as I really like my 4i.  Excepting the switches...

rkeir

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Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #7 on: 23 Jul 2008, 06:33 pm »
Yes, I will report back to the circle. (I have to work my tape monitor switch back and forth every once and a while too.)

Wayner

Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #8 on: 16 Aug 2008, 01:59 pm »
I probably am the first one to receive an EC Insight preamp with phono section. I have had it since Tuesday, along with the T8 repair and have not really had time to do some serious listening. That will come today.

This morning I put the phono section through some tests with my Soundcraftsmen test record. Channel balance (using my wonderful Empire 598 II) was (I would guess) within 1/4 db between left and right channels. Of course this is not an official measurement, but I did use 2 different sources for meters. One source is my analog input section on my Philips CD recorder. On analog input from the table, meters were almost consistently parallel on the all band pink noise track on the record. Unfortunately, I did not have a y cable to put true mono into both inputs, but I swapped both inputs to see symmetry and there was. I then hooked up the Revox reel-to-reel and did the same thing, this time I could calibrate both channels with the same input to get a good reference level. This is the goofy stuff you  have to do when you have no test equipment, but it is a good visual. The Revox confirmed the findings with the Philips. Yes, this is slightly unscientific of me, but it's the best I can do for now.

Audibly, I have measured my speakers for symmetry and are dialed in really close as far as toe-in angle (which is very slight) and set back (which is identical for both) as well as being centered around an imaginary line in my studio.

The next test instrument I used was my ears. Test record for a short time was again, the Soundcraftsmen test record with all-band pink noise. Both channels centered at almost mid-point, again confirming uniform output.

Next I used an actual recording of Andreas Vollenwieder (on CBS records, and NOT COLUMBIA). The album is called Caverna Magica and as you can guess from the title, it has plenty of reverb. The sound was very holographic and instruments sounded very real with a very delicate timbre' the hit a very particular spot on the ear drum...as one might hear at a real concert. The soundstage is wide and natural and reverb decay was very even between the 2 channels, leaving me with a very pleasant soundscape. The music also goes way beyond the left and right speakers and I can hear both speakers at either extreme and hear full stereo. Some of that is this room, some the table, but I know the phono section is doing it's job, but afterawhile, I was just listening to the music, forgetting about the electronics altogether.

This thing is sweet. I'm confident that if you like vinyl and can appreciate some of the way excellent sounding MM carts out there, this pre-amp with the optional phono board will make you smile.

Wayner

ArthurDent

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Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #9 on: 16 Aug 2008, 03:15 pm »
Nice writeup, as usual Wayner. Good info too. If by chance you're not already familiar with them, and into something slightly off the beaten music path, check out Paul Horn's Great Pyramid and Taj Mahal recordings. More like contemplative tone poems, but displays the amazing acoustics of those Wonders of the Old world. Not sure I'd want to sit in the dark, deep inside the Great Pyramid, for any reason, but glad he did.

Am anxiously awaiting my Insight DAC   :drool:  , and looking forward to a/b ing with the Ultra.

Wayner

Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #10 on: 16 Aug 2008, 05:45 pm »
Thank you Arthur.

I must also remind most that I listen to vinyl in near field with 2 sets of speakers at least at 91db efficiency. Many times I'm in the middle of 2 speakers 6 feet apart and I'm from 4 to 6 feet away. The demands that I put on AVA equipment are cruel. However, for Franks sake, If it sounds great here, it will sound great anywhere. I also have to admit that I'm a fussy bastard, looking for the same "is it real" holy grail that most of your are looking for. I heard a funny noise in the T8 and sent it back to Frank, again. I'm sure he's probably getting sick of this unit, but there is a very hard to find component that is causing the headaches. He will find it. That preamp is also quite capable of producing some of the finest vinyl I have ever heard. Also listening in near field.

For those of you that are considering high efficiency speakers and listening to them in near field, I suggest AVA, as I'm afraid, something less diminutive will be nothing less than disappointing. Near field is a big challenge and only the top dogs survive.

One more comment about the EC is that this Insight version is very happy with the 170ex. My normal amp that I pair up with the EC is the 260EX that will be here Monday with the new Insight upgrade. Of course, I can't wait, but the combination right now is pretty impressive. The 85 watts per channel of the 170EX is under total control and can bark out some damn good bass when called on to do so. This is how I can tell the difference between the OmegaStar and the Insight upgrade. The 800uv/sec. slew rate makes the music fast, faster, fastest and in near field, I feel I can crawl right into the recording. The album playing right now is Andreas Vollenweider, White Winds on CBS. It is an audiophile recording (instrumental) and will show off near field excellence in a big way.

Back to listening.  aa


rkeir

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Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #11 on: 17 Aug 2008, 05:08 am »
Thanks Wayner for publishing your first impressions of the Insight preamp phono section. That was the kind of information I was looking for. I hadn't considered a solid-state preamp since making the switch from a Dynaco PAT-5 to a AVA Super Pas 2 twenty some years ago. The new Insight and the comments that are beginning to come out are causing me to rethink that. I hope that sometime in the near future you will update the circle after having lived with it for a while.

Meanwhile, I'm awaiting the return of my Super Pas 4i. Mr Van Alstine has let me know that it is on its way. As you might imagine, I'm really looking forward to putting it back to work, and listening for the improvements Frank has made.

These last couple of weeks I have been using my Super Pas 3. It is a very musical preamp and I haven't felt too deprived with the 4i away for the modifications. It does have the low gain 5751 tubes, however, so the noise floor is a little higher than what I'm used to. Still, it's a pretty nice back-up.

Wayner

Re: Insight phono section
« Reply #12 on: 17 Aug 2008, 10:43 am »
Nice to have a good back up. My PAT-4 is OK but I'm really thinking of getting something else.

Wayner