Empirical Design cables

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AndrewA

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Empirical Design cables
« on: 30 Aug 2008, 12:43 pm »
Hi!  Does anyone have experience with the Empirical Design (*not* Empirical Audio) cables?  Specifically, the 422 unshielded interconnects.  How would you characterize them sonically?

Thanks!

cloudbaseracer

Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #1 on: 1 Sep 2008, 04:40 pm »
Andrew,

I noticed you did not receive any reply's so I will tell you my experience.  I have just set up my new system after a long hiatus from the hobby.  I am a research freak and tried to read up on all the components I use.  I noticed the Emperical Designs cables were listed in either The Absolute Sound or Stereophile as being a great budget pair of interconnects.  I really have no reference to give due to the fact that my whole system is new.  I can tell you that I am very happy with the sound I am getting.  Essentially I am using the digital out on my ancient Rotel cd player or Squeezebox Duet into a Berhinger digital crossover that feeds two separate Panasonic XR-700 receivers.  I am running complete digital, in that the signal is processed through the Behringer all the way out of the Panasonics into CS2 open baffle speakers.  The sound is really open, with nice depth and clarity.  I know some may think that the Panasonic is not a good choice but I believe the all digital path is as good as most amps available at 5 times the cost.  Maybe more?

I wish I could tell you that I have compared the ED cables to other ones but is is just not the case.  The one article that referenced them stated that they were very neutral and were transmitting the signal very close to what it should be.  This is what I was looking for.. Accurate transparency.  I believe this one user has tried to replace them several times with many other more expensive interconnects only to return to the ED.  One thing to note is that I had one end terminated with a BNC to maintain the 75ohm signal.  Also, the owner of ED was very nice to work with.  He is just a one man show that apparently has gotten just the right mix.  You could pay more, you could pay less and as many on the forum say - "your mileage may vary".

James



NagysAudio

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Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #2 on: 6 Sep 2008, 03:14 am »
Empirical Design makes some of the best cables money can buy. I used to sell them for years and they are absolutely fantastic! Sonically similar to the Swiss Goldmund cables. And Karl Schuster is a great guy.

Norbert
« Last Edit: 6 Sep 2008, 08:52 pm by NagysAudio »

TONEPUB

Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #3 on: 6 Sep 2008, 04:51 am »
I'll add my two cents worth and agree also.

I have some ED speaker cables and interconnects and have been
very impressed with them.  They are very well made and the sound
to me is very neutral.  I have a lot of expensive cables hanging around
here but for the money, these are some of the best I've heard.


AndrewA

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Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #4 on: 9 Sep 2008, 12:53 pm »
Many thanks to all for the feedback.  Sounds good!

mca

Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #5 on: 9 Sep 2008, 02:15 pm »
I wish he had pictures of the cables on his site. Are they thin, thick, flexible, stiff?

saisunil

Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #6 on: 9 Sep 2008, 02:46 pm »
Actually I have a set of each of his cables - IC, PC, Digital and Speaker - I like them all.
Empirical Design cables do what they are supposed to do - they are totally uncolored and do not come in the way while delivering the goods. They let me hear the changes in the equipment. These cables do not seem to add anything or take away anything.

These cables are flexible, and relatively thin. They do not have layers and layers of stuff on the cable. The Cable jacket is also thin mesh. The speaker cables are less flexible and are relatively stiffer.
These cables don't look expensive and there is little or no marketing or hype about these cables - just good design.
I agree there should picture of these cables on his site.

I think, you can't go wrong with them.

Cheers
Sunil.

NagysAudio

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Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #7 on: 9 Sep 2008, 11:18 pm »
They're about as thick and flexible as Belden coax cables 89259 and 1695A (Blue Jeans Cables uses similar design). Some have nylon sleeves, while others do not. The RCA connectors for their digital and interconnect cables are Vampire C5X and C7X. Speaker cables are a pair of coax cables twisted together, so they are stiffer. Speaker cables are terminated with locking bananas and spades. They use nearly precision/test grade coax cables and absolutely the best coax RCA plugs on the market. This is the same plugs Swiss Goldmund uses on their significantly more expensive cables. However, Goldmund uses a military specd silver plated coax cable and ED does not.

At any rate, only a few manufacturers provide better cables on the market right now, regardless of price.

Phil A

Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #8 on: 9 Sep 2008, 11:36 pm »
Empirical Design makes some of the best cables money can buy. I used to sell them for years and they are absolutely fantastic! Sonically similar to the Swiss Goldmund cables. And Karl Schuster is a great guy.

Norbert

I concur.  I have known Karl a long time and was with him Sunday night at a concert.  I have not heard the latest stuff but his designs are always an exceptional value (I still have some of the earlier stuff and have compared it with much more expensive cables).  He is one of the few people you can honestly ask a question to about his stuff vs. others and sonic qualities and get a real non-marketing BS answer.  If you have a question about a certain cable to be used with particular equipment go ahead and send him an E-Mail.  Karl has spent his entire life in the audio industry from retail sales to being a manuf. rep. to being part of a high end speaker co. that made great speakers (Methaphor Acoustics - do a Google search) and making cables.  When you get an answer back it is from a person of experience that cares more about what you want vs. push product for the sake of pushing it.

Karl Schuster

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Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #9 on: 15 Sep 2008, 08:29 pm »
Thanks for your interest, AndrewA. I'm a little biased, so I'll leave the subjective commentary to other contributors.

I'd like to thank James, Norbert, Jeff, Sunil, and Phil for their kind comments. I will soon be adding product photographs to the Empirical Design web site; the test run went well last week, and I hope to have the final images ready to post this week. In the upcoming months, I will also adding supplemental design details, as requested by technically oriented customers. I've been spending most of my time lately with a soldering iron in hand, in order to satisfy the unprecedented growth in demand that Empirical Design has been so fortunate to experience throughout this past year. I appreciate everyone's patience while I bring the web site up to date.

I'd like to offer some clarification to the September 9 comments from NagysAudio. Most of the cables that Norbert describes are older designs that are no longer in production (though I do have a few remaining samples on the shelves -- first come, first served!). The current Empirical Design Analog Interconnect Cables use a star-quad (422) or twisted pair (222) geometry, with Neutrik RCA, XLR, or TRS plugs that are best suited for these specific designs. The current 213 Speaker Cable uses a parallel, bonded pair of braided tubular conductors, with direct-soldered, low mass spade lugs or thin-wall banana plugs, rather than the twisted conductors and two-piece WBT connectors of the old Omniwire Speaker Cable. The current third-generation 118 Digital Cable remains a coaxial cable, which of course it must if it is to satisfy the technical requirements of the S/PDIF specification.

The original first-generation Omniwire cable was indeed inspired by the far more expensive Goldmund Lineal cable, with which I was quite familiar, having served as Goldmund's U.S. Customer Service Director from 1989 until 1993. I used the Goldmund Lineal Cable as an acknowledged industry reference while designing Omniwire back in 1993. By my third prototype, I had a cable that equaled the performance of the Lineal, and by my seventh prototype, I had one that handily surpassed that of the Goldmund Cable. (I still have all of those prototypes in storage.)

The original Omniwire cable did end up sharing a specific design element in common with the Goldmund Lineal cable: a silver-plated, copper covered steel center conductor, though it was based on a different military-grade specification than was the Goldmund cable. As the design process progressed, it became undeniably apparent that basic cable geometry was only one factor influencing the final sonic performance. This design was superseded in 1999 by Omniwire II, which incorporated completely different conductor and dielectric materials.

The Omniwire and successor Omniwire II cables were intended to be universal interconnect cables (hence the name), suitable for use at both analog audio and digital (RF) frequencies. After I introduced the entirely new 222 Analog Interconnect Cable in 2002, and then its higher performance big brother, 422, I was free to fully optimize a coaxial cable design specifically for S/PDIF digital frequency range transmission. The current 118 digital cable, introduced in 2004, does continue to employ the Sound Connections (Vampire) CX RCA and BNC connectors, which remain the connectors of choice for proper geometric termination of a coaxial cable topology, especially if the manufacturer cares about long-term stability and reliability.

Bill Baker

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Re: Empirical Design cables
« Reply #10 on: 16 Sep 2008, 02:17 am »
Being a dealer, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on them.

Pictures...... I can help you with that.

Interconnect Cables  ED422



Speaker Cable  ED213