[cujobob]

If the comparison was done on a proper system with familiar material then it could be done...however many people do not notice small changes so it would have to be someone with excellent hearing

[EDS_]

Anybody who believes they can hear a difference between cables should take their case to the Amazing Randi and collect a million dollars.

Here you go

It's a legit offer, he has the money waiting in an account for someone to claim it. 

I'm somewhat neutral on this topic, it wouldn't piss me off if someone proved me wrong.  I've read about, and participated in, DBT's designed to test cables.  In my experience there is no difference and I've never heard of a DBT that showed otherwise.  Add to that the ridiculous claims some cable manufacturers make, things that if true would literally rewrite the laws of physics, and the whole thing just smells like snake oil to me. 

But by all means, prove me wrong.  Go collect your million dollars. 

1.  I think it's a bogus offer.  I've tried to contact that guy three times in the past with zero success.

2.  There is no question that the cable segment of our hobby generates an enormous amount of BS.  That does not mean decent cables sound exactly like lamp cord.  If geometry, for example, makes no difference why not "parallel pair" instead of "twisted pair"?  

3.  Why are you so fascinated with DBT?  

[WallyWest]

1.  I think it's a bogus offer.  I've tried to contact that guy three times in the past with zero success.

I know it was offered to several golden eared "experts" and they backed down.  I would guess he gets so many challenges he has to prioritize.  The offer isn't just about cables, the million bucks is up for anyone who can prove any sort of paranormal ability. 

2.  There is no question that the cable segment of our hobby generates an enormous amount of BS.  That does not mean decent cables sound exactly like lamp cord.  If geometry, for example, makes no difference why not "parallel pair" instead of "twisted pair"?  

Because twisted pair actually serves a purpose in some types of cable.  It doesn't cost thousands of dollars to make a twisted pair cable though. 

3.  Why are you so fascinated with DBT?  

Because it's impossible to BS your way through it.  ABX will work too if properly conducted. 

[Savjac]

I really like the differences I hear. I have done this hobby for many years and have been a doubter in the past.
I suppose age has taught me that if I like it then it is right for me.
So real or not, it matters not to me. As long as it makes me happy.
Dannys products have made me very happy, so he must be doing something right.

[corndog71]

If you've heard several and can't tell them apart then just pick one and run with it.

Hearing differences in cables is what got me into this hobby.  Kimber Kable has long been one of my favorites.  I currently use their modestly priced 4VS in my living room system and a modified 8TC in my bedroom stereo.

It's a little bit more money, but not outrageous.

For interconnects and internal wire on my homemade tube gear I use homegrownaudio silver and copper solid core wire. 


 

[stevecuss]

I'm a GR Research noob and a natural skeptic that had Home Depot raw cable hooked up to my system until last week.  I recently built a pair of Danny's AV2s and have been thrilled with the sound and am generally having a blast with my cd collection. 

a friend of mine "used to be into audiophile stuff and then got married" and let me borrow his custom kimber kables that he used on his B&W cdms before he sold them.  I wired up my system with them and there is no doubt in my mind that they make a difference. 

Of course no one is objective and I'm not claiming science here, but I have nothing to gain by suggesting that they are better.  They aren't my cables, I can't afford them and won't spend money on high end cables any time soon.

but they did sound better to my ear.  fuller sound and a little louder than my home depot specials.

I gave the kimberkable back (I've got young kids that like to explore and these suckers retailed for around $500 a pair) and I wired up the home with raw cable from a friend of mine who runs an AV company.  I'll buy banana connectors later on, but for now, I'm sold on the difference in sound.

whether they are worth the cost is entirely another matter.  I'm very happy with the sound coming through my cheap home made cables.


this is a great forum - I'm glad I get to participate

[Danny Richie]

Several weeks back I placed an order to have some really good internal hook up wire made.

They are making me 20,000 feet of high purity Copper wire (99.98% pure), in 16 gauge, solid core, with polyethylene jacketing. Half of it is White and half is Red jacketed.

I get a pretty reasonable deal when ordering that much at once and will pass it on to my customers.

I am thinking of reselling it for only 60 cents a foot.

You can then twist four of them into a star quad or braid six of them into a braid like the wire pictured below.



I can then sell you the Vampire high purity spades or banana plug ends to go with it and you can make your own really high quality cables for not much money at all.

You guys can just let me know if you are interested.

[TRADERXFAN]

Well, I would be. But hopefully its a nice red. (The red/pink on the reality cables is a little offputting)

-Tony

[DaveC113]

A couple cheap ideas that have worked far better than I had hoped...

1. The Wal Mart Woods Patio Cord in a double run, 2 strands of each run -, one +.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50161.0

This stuff is pretty ugly, and 2 runs is 4x as ugly as one. But, its cheap and somehow defies logic as far as how cheap copper and bad dielectric material can possibly sound good.

2. 18 gauge silver plated copper w/ teflon insulation mil-spec wire twisted in a star quad. This stuff is as cheap as $0.18 / ft online, I also used it as hookup wire for some of the wiring in a tube amp. Figuring out how to twist a star quad with a drill is the big challenge here, but its not too hard to get the hang of it. Its available in lots of colors, and looks nice when done. The wire is stiff enough to hold the twist without coming untwisted by its self, but is flexible enough that its easy to route between the amp and the speakers. If you had a bi-wire / bi-amp system I'd try using 14g for the lows and 18g for the highs.

Danny, have you tried twisting the pairs before you braid them in that 6 wire braid you pictured?

Dave

[corndog71]

I'm a GR Research noob and a natural skeptic that had Home Depot raw cable hooked up to my system until last week.  I recently built a pair of Danny's AV2s and have been thrilled with the sound and am generally having a blast with my cd collection. 

a friend of mine "used to be into audiophile stuff and then got married" and let me borrow his custom kimber kables that he used on his B&W cdms before he sold them.  I wired up my system with them and there is no doubt in my mind that they make a difference. 

Of course no one is objective and I'm not claiming science here, but I have nothing to gain by suggesting that they are better.  They aren't my cables, I can't afford them and won't spend money on high end cables any time soon.

but they did sound better to my ear.  fuller sound and a little louder than my home depot specials.

I gave the kimberkable back (I've got young kids that like to explore and these suckers retailed for around $500 a pair) and I wired up the home with raw cable from a friend of mine who runs an AV company.  I'll buy banana connectors later on, but for now, I'm sold on the difference in sound.

whether they are worth the cost is entirely another matter.  I'm very happy with the sound coming through my cheap home made cables.


this is a great forum - I'm glad I get to participate

Kimber's 4VS cable is very reasonably priced at around $3.50/ft and still sounds great.  You can get it from www.audioadvisor.com


I look forward to trying that 16awg solid core wire from you, Danny.  That's a great price.  
I would recommend a 4-wire braid.

[KCI-JohnP]

Are you an electrical engineer?  Do you design audio equipment?  Do you own a company?

I stand by what I said about speaker wire.  It's wire, that's all.  Critics are a dime a dozen.

Ha ha, boy they are a "dime a dozen" aren't they...talk about FIM!!

Anybody who believes they can hear a difference between cables should take their case to the Amazing Randi and collect a million dollars.

Here you go

It's a legit offer, he has the money waiting in an account for someone to claim it. 

I'm somewhat neutral on this topic, it wouldn't piss me off if someone proved me wrong.  I've read about, and participated in, DBT's designed to test cables.  In my experience there is no difference and I've never heard of a DBT that showed otherwise.  Add to that the ridiculous claims some cable manufacturers make, things that if true would literally rewrite the laws of physics, and the whole thing just smells like snake oil to me. 

But by all means, prove me wrong.  Go collect your million dollars. 

There was also an offer out there just the same as the cable offer you mention-only it was for amplifiers, no one ever claimed that money either.....

[Niteshade]

Just use the proper gauge for the length of run you'll be doing. I think 14ga is great for even 20 foot spans. After that, switch to 12ga. The kind? I don't know. Any high grade copper wire should do it. Be leary of wild claims and extremely high prices. Some people have used 12-2 house wire for long runs with excellent results. Just keep it PRACTICAL.

[KS]

How important is it for the cables to each speaker to be the same length?  With the amps off to the side, one side needs to be 14' and the other side could be 6'.  With this much copper (#16 x two or three) in a relatively very short circuit, is the difference in resistance important?

#16 wire has a cross sectional area of 2583 circular mils.  Double that is about equal to #13 gauge wire (5178 circular mils) and triple is almost equal to #11 gauge (8234 circular mils).  Does anyone know the max transient amperage that goes to speakers in any "normal" home system?

[corndog71]

I tend to keep my speaker cables the same length just in case I decide to move things around.  I just prefer to keep the variables balanced so to speak.

[dweekie]

Several weeks back I placed an order to have some really good internal hook up wire made.

They are making me 20,000 feet of high purity Copper wire (99.98% pure), in 16 gauge, solid core, with polyethylene jacketing. Half of it is White and half is Red jacketed.

I get a pretty reasonable deal when ordering that much at once and will pass it on to my customers.

I am thinking of reselling it for only 60 cents a foot.

You can then twist four of them into a star quad or braid six of them into a braid like the wire pictured below.



I can then sell you the Vampire high purity spades or banana plug ends to go with it and you can make your own really high quality cables for not much money at all.

You guys can just let me know if you are interested.

I'll put a vote in for my interest.  I want to replace one of my other hyped up diy formula speaker cables with this one.