[rlcoen]

Just curious if anyone else is thinking about this....

How much of the new vinyl (and reissues) are we listening to that has been cut from digital masters instead of analog tape?  Is there any value-add in a vinyl stamping of a digital event? I guess a 24/96 master would bypasses the dithering to 16/44, but it's still not a pure analog transfer.  At two and three time the cost of the equivalent CD, are a lot of recent vinyl releases worth it?

[WGH]

At two and three time the cost of the quivalent CD, are a lot of recent vinyl releases worth it?

Based on the latest releases I bought on vinyl: The Road to Escondido by JJ Cale & Eric Clapton and Tom Petty's Highway Companion I would have to say yes.

My ancient Harmon Kardon turntable with a Goldring cartridge handily beats the Scott Nixon TubeDAC every time in every category. I don't know how far up the food chain you need to go before vinyl looses to a CD every time, depends on how deep your pockets are I guess. Most of my albums these days are from local record swap meets so a vinyl spinner is still essential if you love music, a lot will never make it on a CD.

Wayne

[TONEPUB]

After listening to the new Doors box set, I would also say yes.

I've spent the last couple of days talking to Bernie Grundman and
Bruce Botnick about how they did the project and they felt that
24/96 would not compromise the quality.

I'm completely inclined to agree with them, these are some
of the best records I've ever heard.

But the quality of recent vinyl is all over the place.  Some of
it is excellent, but some is lousy.  My system is at a point that with
equally good recordings the analog front end will offer up a more
musical presentation.  But if the mastering is better on CD, that
sounds better, so it's really down to the recording in the end.

I love my turntables, but I like having analog and digital.

In the end I only think the expensive records are worth the money
if you have the resolution to take advantage of it.... 

[WGH]

Highway Companion was mastered by Brian Gardner at Bernie Grundman Mastering.

[TONEPUB]

The LP was mastered at RTI by Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray.
I was there for the session....

Don't know about the CD.

But I'm a big Bernie Fan.

[rlcoen]

Appreciate the feedback everyone...thanks!!!

[Vinyl-Addict]

I've spent the last couple of days talking to Bernie Grundman and
Bruce Botnick about how they did the project and they felt that
24/96 would not compromise the quality.

Jeff, Do you know if they tried higher sampling rates, I.E. 24/176.4 or 192?
In my short time doing needledrops, I prefer the sound of higher sampling rate to 24/96 but who am I to question B.B or B.G. 

[mgalusha]

I've been doing the reverse of this for a while now. I use a digital XO for my speakers (much modified Behringer DCX2496) so when listening to vinyl it has to be converted to digital to get to my speakers. Fortunately this all happens at 24/96 and while I'm sure it's not totally transparent it's still very good and my records still sound like records and generally spank CD's that are fed through the same XO.

mike

[TONEPUB]

I'm going to see Bruce next month, so I'll find out if he'll share any secrets with me!

[Donkeyshins]

Um...yeah.

At the very least, with the vinyl transfers (warts & all), there just seems to be more 'there' there.  Despite the surface noise, the warped LPs and the off-center spindle holes.  I've not purchased any of the remasters because I'm burdened with small children, but the new vinyl I've bought lately (The Decemberists, Quasi, The White Stripes, Cat Power) all sound markedly superior to their CD counterparts.  Although to be fair, my digital front-end is definitely not the be-all and end-all - it's an NEC MultiSpin 4x external SCSI CD-ROM connected via S/PDIF to a Meridian 263 Delta-Sigma DAC whereas my analog front-end is a N.A. Interspace + OL-1 w/ all upgrades + DL103 + Gram Amp.

-D

[Wayner]

We've been listening to digitally mastered vinyl since at least 1983. I believe that was the earliest date I have of vinyl digitally recorded. When I go home, I will check a couple of LP's that might have been earlier.

As far as latest releases, I have been very pleased with over all sound and quality. Many LP's are now released on 180 or 200 gram vinyl. Niel Young's Prairie Wind comes to mind as one of those great releases.

Wayner

[TheChairGuy]

I think the first commercial released digital recording on vinyl was that of Ry Cooder.....it was either 1980 or 1981.  I remember as I worked at my high school (10 watt) radio station in Long Island.....and when it came in we all listened to the new technology in the backroom.

I graduated in '81 

We were underwhelmed by the sonics (as the studio needles were probably tracking at 5-6 grams back then, it didn't have a chance to show off any sonic merits, frankly)...but thought the music was inspired as I remember it.

Nonetheless, the album got no airplay - I didn't know any of the fellow DJ's that used it (we all got to choose our own music back then, of course)

John

[WGH]

I think the first commercial released digital recording on vinyl was that of Ry Cooder.....it was either 1980 or 1981.

Great memory John! Bop Til You Drop was first released in 1979. From the back cover: The album was recorded on 3-M multi-track digital equipment and is essentially an exact copy of the master tape and was not treated with any equalizing or limiting during final transfer to disc.

Wayne

[Photon46]

John, interesting story. I've got a well preserved copy of "Bob till you Drop," and it sounds really excellent IMO. Very lively and vibrant sound. I'm a big fan of Ry's music and I really like that album. Personally, I never have been a member of the haters club when it comes to vinyl originally mastered in the digital realm. Like any recording, it seems to depend on the skill of the producer and engineer.

[GBB]

Great memory John! Bop Til You Drop was first released in 1979. From the back cover: The album was recorded on 3-M multi-track digital equipment and is essentially an exact copy of the master tape and was not treated with any equalizing or limiting during final transfer to disc.

Wayne

Wayne,
You beat me to it.  I have that album as well and remember buying it because it was the first digital album and of course I had to hear how wonderful that would be  .  Here are a few snapshots.
---Gary

[Scott F.]

Actually digital recordings predate the Ry Cooder release, though it is one of the early ones.

I checked in my vinyl library and the earliest releases I could remember were the Denon PCM recordings of the mid-70's. I've got about a dozen or fifteen classical releases of the OX lettered series that date to early 1976. I picked these up at a flea market in Florida when we were there a few years ago. According to the liner notes, these were recorded at 14 bits/48kHz onto 2" tape running at 38cm/sec. As I remember they sounded OK(ish) considering they were obviously a first generation issue of new technology.




The newer digital remasters are significantly better sounding. If you want to try a cheap one that sounds extremely good get Joe Jackson's Body and Soul (1984). I've also got a number of new-new releases that are extremely good sounding. The Cream Reunion at Royal Albert Hall box set is absolutely stunning....but then again, Stan Ricker mastered it   

For those who haven't heard a recent Stan Ricker mastering job, you need to pick one up. Grab an album that he has done sometime in the last three or four years (anything post Plas Johnson on the Pure Audiophile label). The differences in sound between his work and the "other guys" is more than dramatic. Stan uses the most resolving cutting head in the industry. If I remember correctly, Stan said it was a Neumann that was heavily modified by a guy in New York. It is also the only one in existence as of the last time I talked to him.