Bi-amping and Balanced Operation

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Bill Lamb

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Bi-amping and Balanced Operation
« on: 7 Sep 2003, 06:03 pm »
Can someone tell me what happens if you connect two pairs of amps to a passive pre-amp like the NOH?  What does this do to input and ouput impedance considerations?  Are there any advantages/ disadvantages compared to running only one pair of amps at a time?

Also, how does balanced operation (with the XLRs) work?  Is it possible to receive a single ended input and send the same signal through balanced outputs?  Would the signal that goes out be truly balanced?  Aren't the hot legs of a balanced line supposed to be equal and opposite to each other?  If this is true, wouldn't you need four transformers for each of the lines in a stereo setup?

I'm asking all this because I'm considering bi-amping my speakers and I dislike pre-amps.  I also have amps that work best from balanced inputs.  I'm thinking the NOH just might be the answer to my problems..

Thanks very much for your time!

John Chapman

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    • http://www.bentaudio.com
Bi-amping and Balanced Operation
« Reply #1 on: 8 Sep 2003, 03:27 pm »
Hello!

I'll do my best to answer in-line with your questions.

>Can someone tell me what happens if you connect two pairs of amps to a >passive pre-amp like the NOH?

The load would be the combined impedance of the 2 loads. Most loads are high enough that this works fine and I often bi-amp myself. If you had a 50K load at each amp the net load would be 25K as an example.

>What does this do to input and ouput impedance considerations?

See above - not usually any special considderations unless the amps both had very low input impedances already (like 5K or something...)


> Are there any advantages/ disadvantages compared to running only one >pair of amps at a time?

Again - not really. If your system is setup to bi-amp then you'd bi-amp!

>Also, how does balanced operation (with the XLRs) work?

Pretty good.

>Is it possible to receive a single ended input and send the same signal >through balanced outputs?

Yes it is. Transformers are often used just to do these kind of unballanced  to ballanced or ballanced to unballanced conversions.


>Would the signal that goes out be truly balanced? Aren't the hot legs of a
>balanced line supposed to be equal and opposite to each other? If this is
>true, wouldn't you need four transformers for each of the lines in a stereo
> setup?

Kinda.... Ballanced lines are also known as differential signals - with the idea being that the actual signal is the difference between pin2 and pin3 of the ballanced signal. That way if some noise appears on both lines then the difference stays the same - cancelling out the noise. The output of a TX102 is what is known as a floating ballanced signal. It does not have a true center tap for a ground reference but the bal amp input see's the difference between the bottom side of the secondary and the top. To add a ground reference would add another wire for EACH of the 23 secondary taps (and the switching for those wires). This would not be an easy task since it is already a lot of wires comming out of those things...

I (and some others) have used TX102's ballanced with my Atmasphere amps with very good success. Many other ballanced amps have been used as well and Jonathan at S&B often runs ballanced connections with his setup over there.

>I'm asking all this because I'm considering bi-amping my speakers and I
>dislike pre-amps. I also have amps that work best from balanced inputs.
>I'm thinking the NOH just might be the answer to my problems.

May be. Call or e-mail with your systems description and we'll see if it would be a fit for what you need.


Many Thanks!

John Chapman
www.bentaudio.com

Bill Lamb

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
Bi-amping and Balanced Operation
« Reply #2 on: 9 Sep 2003, 09:33 pm »
Thanks very much for taking the time to answer my questions.

I'm also running Atma-Sphere amps.  I have a pair of M-60s and am thinking about bi-amping my Sound Lab Pristines with another pair of M-60s.  Normally I run my CD player straight into the amps, but I wasn't sure how I would handle directly driving two amps.  

My CD player has volume level control, so I don't strictly need a passive pre-amp at this point, but I'd like to have the option of running a CDP that doesn't have volume control.  I'm looking at upgrading to something with balanced outs and SACD capability.  It sounds like your transformer based volume control may be more transparent than the volume controls that are shipping with the CD players I'm looking at.  

Regards,

Bill

John Chapman

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Bi-amping and Balanced Operation
« Reply #3 on: 9 Sep 2003, 10:15 pm »
Hello!

Sometimes a direct connection can work really well. If the level control in the CDP is suited to your system's gain structure (so you run up near the top end for typical listenning) then it may be the way to go for you. Certainly cheaper then a pre-amp if the cdp has a level control anyway. If you need 2 sources or end up with a player  having a fixed output a NOH should fit with your stuff fine.

There is no reason you can not bi-amp with the player you have now. Just run the output of the player to both amps. If you use a passive bi-amp arrangement (like ut sounds you will) with identical amps then the levels should match and it is nice and simple. I followed the Soundlabs stuff for a while and love them. Given the right amp and room they are the finest speaker I know of. I'll bet your system is great!


Many Thansk!

John Chapman
www.bentaudio.ccom