[jqp]

I have read that the special edition Halo3 XBoxes have the chip, also Elites. But you have to check numbers to be sure apparently...

http://forums.xbox.com/15804553/ShowPost.aspx

[jermmd]

So how is this better than the old XBox?

[Woodsea]

Here is a pic of the old GPU and CPU that draws

more power than this one


There is speculation that the GPU is also at 45, time will tell.  This is a completely new motherboard. 
Please note that not all Halo3 LEs are like this, it seems to start somewhere at lot #734 (end august man. date) - you can find the lot# on the side sticker of the Xbox360 box.

[AdamM]

I wonder if they'll have less 'Ring of Fire' issues with the new one..?  Let's hope so.


http://www.sarcasticgamer.com/2007/06/ring-of-fire.html

Unfortunately, very high failure rates.....

[jqp]

So how is this better than the old XBox?

A significant percent of the older ones had overheating problems/red ring of death, and were noisier than many were happy with.

I have had zero problems with noise - my sound system masks any fan noise. And no overheating problems/red ring of death for me, but am not a "hard core gamer".

This issue may be relaled to design issues, but it also seems to be related to which manufacturing lot you have purchased. But the theory is, smaller chips are better, less heat generated.

The later machines after lot 734? apparently all have the new size, but some say that the GPU is the culprit which is not the smaller size yet. So you may want to follow this in the internets for a week or so to see what the verdict is. The key is to identify by some definitive lot number/run number/other indication which XBox you want to purchase, which may be difficult.

In the end you will have to rely on the warranty, which is extended to 3 years for the red ring of death issue.

[AdamM]

The warranty is a godsend!

I've heard that it's more the GPU side (video processors) that are responsible - they have very minor cooling and such little room, all crammed in next to the transport.  A cooler running CPU would surely help, too.  That might explain why they go down more frequently when gaming, instead of just watching a movie, as the GPU's are mostly inactive for the latter.

Of our batch of around 40, we're losing about 1 a month. Microsoft is great about fixing/replacing them.  We're starting develop a specific chant every time one goes down (somewhat funny).

All that said, it's my favorite piece of gaming hardware.  Fantastically powerful.  So many of my  'I can't wait until we can do this'  dreams are coming true


/A

[Woodsea]

The GPU is the one on the left of the CPU, in the pictures that I put on this thread.  Some say it is smaller.  M$ will not comment on either. 

[AdamM]

Actually, that whole assembly is the GPU

The smaller block next to the GPU is the eDRAM section

People often get it mixed up.  If you look close on the image you posted, you can faintly see it says 'GPU' right on there.

The CPU is over on the right side (upper right corner of this image):


Much of the overheating is due to a screwup at manufacture - the protective foil wasn't taken off the heatsink!!
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=496524

I'm sure somebody somewhere got fired bigtime for that 

[Mathew_M]

Much of the overheating is due to a screwup at manufacture - the protective foil wasn't taken off the heatsink!!
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=496524

So you're saying that my brother's Xbox 360 has been sent back three times (and his fourth one is currently on the fritz) because of some protective foil that wasn't removed?  Yeah right.     Microsoft over-built the 360 (poor cooling, poorly engineered) and threw it out into the marketplace basically un-field tested in trying to get a head start on the gen7 videogame race. 

[Woodsea]

So then the GPU is smaller, right?

[mcullinan]

Will they drop the price further on the XBox 360? Its pretty much a no brainer, when considering this or the PS3? I mean mainly for games...
Mike

[Bob in St. Louis]

Will they drop the price further on the XBox 360?

Depends if you want the foil removed or not. 

So.... Should I take mine apart and remove the foil or leave it alone. There was a link to a 360 forum on link Adam provided that mentions DON'T take it off. 
My (third) unit is not having any ring of fire issues, but I'd rather not "half cook" my unit before I do anything about it.
I'd rather be pro-active, but I don't want to "fit it if it ain't broke", you know?

Bob

[AdamM]

So you're saying that my brother's Xbox 360 has been sent back three times (and his fourth one is currently on the fritz) because of some protective foil that wasn't removed?  Yeah right.     Microsoft over-built the 360 (poor cooling, poorly engineered) and threw it out into the marketplace basically un-field tested in trying to get a head start on the gen7 videogame race. 

I don't know all the facts in your brother's case.  On a number of failed, investigated Xboxes, there's been some foil between the chip and the heatsink that shouldn't be there.  Did your bro get a brand new one back each time?  Did they repair something and send it back?  I know with my experience of returns, which is quite a few, we get back brand new ones not repairs.  Any fault at manufacture would just come straight back.

These things aren't built to be repaired.

I agree that MS rushed this thing, but there's also a lot of evidence of improper chip/heatsink preparation.  How do you explain the packing foil!?  They rushed this thing!

As for removing the foil... man that's dicey.  I you lived a million miles from where you bought it, and were handy, yeah i'd consider opening it up to remove the foil and put some silver heat transfer compound in there.  That would void the warranty though, so you'd be screwed. 

MS is good about dealing with the returns. Best bet is to just give it lots of breathing room and don't let it get too hot.  Put it on a little riser and don't let it get too close to anything as to maximize the cooling

/A

[AdamM]

So then the GPU is smaller, right?

The GPU chip is smaller than the CPU, yep!  The smallest 'chip' (out of the ones in that photo) is the eDRAM.  However the GPU board assembly is a bit bigger than the CPU's (GPU and eDRAM on that one board)

Here's a secret  shhhh!:  There's quite a powerful audio core on the 360 too:


Many people secretly steal audio processor cycles for stuff other than audio (and don't tell the audio guys!).   Many teams don't fully utilize all it's capability for audio.

We're using convolution reverb and realtime early reflection delay based on our environmental physics collision meshes, so you can 'hear' exactly how things would sound in any given physical location.  It's spooky real!

/A

[Woodsea]

Cool.  No matter what I will be picking one up for christmas.  We leave for the USA on the 15th of December. 

[Woodsea]

THERE ARE NO 65NM GPU UNTIL AUGUST....  cut and pasted, could be false
According to Takahashi, a highly reputable source of Xbox information, Jasper is the code name for the next Xbox 360 motherboard. In his Mercury News blog he says that Jasper will launch next August and feature a 65-nanometer graphics chip from ATI Technologies, alongside smaller memory chips than those currently housed in existing models.

 Jasper will carry lower costs than current motherboards because of the reduced size of its chips, which translate into material savings, and should allow Microsoft to introduce fresh price cuts to its line of Xbox 360 models by next August.

 While a lot of engineering resources have been tied up debugging Xbox 360 reliability problems, Takahashi queries why Microsoft has left it so long to “cost reduce the size of the graphics chip through a manufacturing shrink,” suggesting that the move to 65-nm graphics chips “will likely be one of the best things it can do to improve the reliability.”

 According to the report the 65-nm graphics chip isn’t yet complete. Takahashi says that Microsoft is still working on it although the platform holder declined to comment on the matter, other than to say that updating its hardware components is a constant part of its strategy.

[jqp]

so what does this mean taken with the pictures?

is "August" last August or next August?

[jqp]

"Falcon was rumoured to be on the verge of being launched for most of 2007. Microsoft finally began shipping Falcon-based Xbox 360s last month, it emerged recently.

Falcon's use of a 65nm CPU allows it to get away with a less complex cooling system, and the introduction of Jasper will cut the components' heat output further."

So Falcon, which is shipping has the 65nm CPU, and it cuts heat output. Jasper will have the 65nm GPU.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/10/11/ms_readies_jasper_xbox/