[glaesemann]

Coming from Minneapolis, I have been a devotee of Audio Research and Magnepan for 25 years. I've feed my ears a steady diet of a large number of 6550 tubes and large multi-panel planar's. Prone to doing things in the extremes, I'm now interested in the opposite of the audio spectrum by going SE. I really like the idea of getting off the New York power grid as well.

The Signature 70.2's and the Isabella (when available) look like a nice SE combo with a built in DAC to boot. Though analog is still the preferred source, I have recently moved to an all Apple digital front end. A MacBook interfaced with an Apple 7TB Xserve Raid.

I think I am all set with the exception of speakers. My main concern is I have lived with planar's for so long I know nothing else. What speakers are mating well with the 30.2 or 70.2's?

Also, has anyone tried an Audio Research LS5 MKII or III (tubed pre) with the 70.2's?

Thanks in advance!

Tim

[miklorsmith]

I definitely would audition anything before buying, even used.  You may find planars are the only path for you.  I have not tried those speakers with any RWA amps.

Efficiency is good with these amps, though not so crucial as with SET amps.  Anything above 90 db is probably fine though if your volume requirements are conservative you may be able to go lower.

Higher efficiency means more headroom and volume potential.  As efficiency approaches 100 db and above, weird phenomena can occur with frequency balance and colorations.  These spuriae can be engineered around.

Omega single driver speakers have a reknowed synergy with Red Wine stuff.  I'm using Zu speakers which also are very efficient and great with the Red Wine amps.  If you're interested in horns, I would imagine The Horn Shoppe's horns would be great.  There are way more expensive horns that would benefit from the low noise floor too.

Start with price range, there are lots of great choices at every plateau.

[Vinnie R.]

Coming from Minneapolis, I have been a devotee of Audio Research and Magnepan for 25 years. I've feed my ears a steady diet of a large number of 6550 tubes and large multi-panel planar's. Prone to doing things in the extremes, I'm now interested in the opposite of the audio spectrum by going SE. I really like the idea of getting off the New York power grid as well.

The Signature 70.2's and the Isabella (when available) look like a nice SE combo with a built in DAC to boot. Though analog is still the preferred source, I have recently moved to an all Apple digital front end. A MacBook interfaced with an Apple 7TB Xserve Raid.

I think I am all set with the exception of speakers. My main concern is I have lived with planar's for so long I know nothing else. What speakers are mating well with the 30.2 or 70.2's?

Also, has anyone tried an Audio Research LS5 MKII or III (tubed pre) with the 70.2's?

Thanks in advance!

Tim

Hi Tim,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!

FWIW, I have used the Signature 70.2s with Maggie MG-12s and they worked out very well!  I believe they are rated at 4-ohm and 86dB efficiency. 

I am also using a Macbook with the Isabella prototype (via the USB input for the internal dac) and it is awesome!  I love the Apple remote and Front-row software interface.  I can view my album artwork and song info from across my room on the laptop screen... very nice!  The Isabella will also have analog inputs, so you'll be able to connect the analog output of a phonostage.

I think I am all set with the exception of speakers. My main concern is I have lived with planar's for so long I know nothing else. What speakers are mating well with the 30.2 or 70.2's?

If you love the Magnepan sound, you might find that the 70.2 has enough power for them.  I haven't tried them on Maggies other than the MG-12, (great speaker for the $$$)! 

There are so many other speakers out there that work very well with the 30.2 and 70.2.  I have customers will all kinds of speakers (e.g. single driver, multi-way, bass-reflex, horns, planars, Quads, etc.) from all different companies. 

I'm curious about the size of your room, how loud you like to listen, and the types of music you listen to, and what is your price range for speakers...

Thanks for your post,

Vinnie

[-Richard-]

Hi glaesemann ~

I also owned Maggies... and learned to appreciate the importance of transparency and that utter
sense of realism that only dipole speakers create... dipoles "breath"... all box speakers I have
ever heard try to simulate that effect but to my ears they all sound directional... that translates to
a kind of beaming effect once you get used to the more "natural" dispersion and "air" of dipoles.

I now listen to Open Baffle speakers. What I am hearing is similar to the Maggies... but with much
greater harmonic complexity and a far more sensual texture... the same immediacy and speed as
Maggies... but with a more holographic fully realized "presence" of instruments and voice.

I built my Open Baffles myself... a simple DIY project... using just a pair of B200 drivers from
Visaton... $260... and a simple rectangular plywood panel... I added phase plugs from Planet
10 in Canada... $60... the total cost will be somewhere around $500 or less.

I am not using a subwoofer even though this simple OB speaker does not reach lower than
the high 40'sHz... the musical perspective is entirely satisfying for Deb and myself in the house
we now live in. The sound is extraordinary with the Signature 70 and a well designed
tube preamplifier.

There are also several OB "commerical" speakers out there that are reasonably priced...
although most are priced into the deep pockets region right now, owing I suspect, to the incredible
sound they create which their designers know will send listeners scurring for their visa cards once
they hear them. But you can DIY on the cheap and it sounds just as good... actually better... than
the high price-tag stuff.

Look at the Open Baffle forum for a much deeper and quite extensive overview of the unfolding
world of OB's right here on AC.

Box speakers are box speakers to anyone who has nourished his/her soul on the dipole sound...
check out OB's and build on the experience you already have.

Warmest Regards ~ Richard

[glaesemann]

 
I am also using a Macbook with the Isabella prototype (via the USB input for the internal dac) and it is awesome!  I love the Apple remote and Front-row software interface.  I can view my album artwork and song info from across my room on the laptop screen... very nice!  The Isabella will also have analog inputs, so you'll be able to connect the analog output of a phonostage.

Great, I could put my ARC PH2 phono pre back into action.

The Mac digital front end is what started the rethinking of the whole system. I sold my ARC CD3 and am REALLY enjoying the unmodded stock MacBook to USB/SPDIF conv. to DAC set-up. I can't wait to start tweaking the conversion aspect (ie. no USB and no SPDIF).

Which brings me to a DAC wish list. Please indulge me...
   - Ethernet in (ala Squeeze Box).
   - I2S - directly fed to the dac chip. No SPDIF in the path!
   - Clock out for sources with clock in.

An ethernet/I2S combo is the killer app to me. I know a lot of people who are baffled as to why we are messing around with the USB bus when ethernet is a superior bus for moving data. It's what makes the Squeeze Box so good. We are basically talking about networking, data and packets and ethernet is proven to be superior to USB. Long wire runs with no interference, reliable, fast speeds, etc. I have used versions of I2S over ethernet on MSB and AA dacs with fantastic results. Problem is they were always proprietary, requiring mods to the source.

I'm curious about the size of your room, how loud you like to listen, and the types of music you listen to, and what is your price range for speakers...

My system is comprised of a pair of Magnepan Tympani IVa's in a vertical bi-amp configuration with an ARC D400MKII (ss) on the bass panels and a vintage ARC D90B (tubed) on the mid and tweeter panels. Crossover is a custom tubed unit. Preamplification is an ARC SP8 MKII rev.7 for vinyl and an ARC LS5 MKII for line stage.

My room is 25wx33dx9h. I tend to bump the volume up a bit for serious sessions. Nothing ridiculous though.

I am lucky in that my wife and daughter are major music consumers and LOVE the big ugly speakers. We consume a lot of music. Recent purchases: Jessica Hoop, Feist, A Fine Frienzy, Zero 7, The Shins, Iron & Wine, you know KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic stuff. In addition I listen to anything live: piano (Eric Satie), quartet (Kronos Quartet), tango (Astor Piazzola) and of course classical symphony. Also a big fan of Talking Heads, This Mortal Coil, Sarah McLachlan, Tori Amos, old Bowie, yada, yada, yada. Mostly anything with great voice and/or instruments and an edge to it. I am lucky because my daughter (11) does not like rock, rap, hip hop or pop.

Price range is dyi to $6,000.

Sorry for the long response. 

[ajzepp]

When I had Maggie MMGs, I had a helluva time getting away from them. I was bound and determined to get the best speaker for $5 that I could find, and I kept coming back to the Maggie 3.6 time and time again. I listened to JM Labs, Von Schweikert, B&W, Totem, etc, and all of them fell short. The only speaker line I fell in love with, and that ultimately took me away from the Maggies, was the DeVore Super 8. I've had them for a little over a year now and plan to have them in my system a long time. In fact, I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of Vinnie's preamp, since that's one of the last pieces I need to have a nice, clean 2-channel signal path. I spend more time with home theater, but 2-channel audio is of greater importance to me.

My DeVores

[Alwayswantmore]

Coming from Minneapolis, I have been a devotee of Audio Research and Magnepan for 25 years. I've feed my ears a steady diet of a large number of 6550 tubes and large multi-panel planar's. Prone to doing things in the extremes, I'm now interested in the opposite of the audio spectrum by going SE. I really like the idea of getting off the New York power grid as well.

The Signature 70.2's and the Isabella (when available) look like a nice SE combo with a built in DAC to boot. Though analog is still the preferred source, I have recently moved to an all Apple digital front end. A MacBook interfaced with an Apple 7TB Xserve Raid.

I think I am all set with the exception of speakers. My main concern is I have lived with planar's for so long I know nothing else. What speakers are mating well with the 30.2 or 70.2's?

Also, has anyone tried an Audio Research LS5 MKII or III (tubed pre) with the 70.2's?

Thanks in advance!

Tim

Hi Tim, I grew up in Minnetonka. A couple years into audio -- in the mid-'70s -- I worked my way up to Timpani T1-Bs and Audio Research. Since then, budget, room constraints and WAF have caused me to seek out simpler and more cost effective audio solutions. Even though for the past 27 years I've lived in the Southeast, I continued to use Mark B. at Audio Perfection as my main source for gear. Over the past year I sold off almost everything I owned and migrated to the Sig 30 and Omega's new 8" Hemp speakers. The dynamics and speed of the Hemps is awesome. Properly set up, they also image extremely well. And I can honestly say what I get out of my system is as lifelike as anything I've heard in my home or in a showroom at much, much bigger bucks!

I haven't heard any of the other speakers mentioned in this thread, so no way to offer any comparison, but I would recommend that you at least do a bit of reseach on Omega's new sub and one of their various Hemp designs. Both Vinnie and Louis are great to work with -- I recommend you pick up the phone and get their thoughts on this.

Again lacking experience with the other speakers mentioned in this thread, I can only say that I am very pleased with my decision to go RWA and Omega.

Kent

[Vinnie R.]

My room is 25wx33dx9h. I tend to bump the volume up a bit for serious sessions. Nothing ridiculous though.
I am lucky in that my wife and daughter are major music consumers and LOVE the big ugly speakers. We consume a lot of music. Recent purchases: Jessica Hoop, Feist, A Fine Frienzy, Zero 7, The Shins, Iron & Wine, you know KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic stuff.  In addition I listen to anything live: piano (Eric Satie), quartet (Kronos Quartet), tango (Astor Piazzola) and of course classical symphony. Also a big fan of Talking Heads, This Mortal Coil, Sarah McLachlan, Tori Amos, old Bowie, yada, yada, yada. Mostly anything with great voice and/or instruments and an edge to it. I am lucky because my daughter (11) does not like rock, rap, hip hop or pop.

Price range is dyi to $6,000.

Nice!  A very open budget and open ear to such great variety in music, and a big ol' room to listen in! 

When I had Maggie MMGs, I had a helluva time getting away from them. I was bound and determined to get the best speaker for $5 that I could find, and I kept coming back to the Maggie 3.6 time and time again. I listened to JM Labs, Von Schweikert, B&W, Totem, etc, and all of them fell short. The only speaker line I fell in love with, and that ultimately took me away from the Maggies, was the DeVore Super 8. I've had them for a little over a year now and plan to have them in my system a long time. In fact, I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of Vinnie's preamp, since that's one of the last pieces I need to have a nice, clean 2-channel signal path. I spend more time with home theater, but 2-channel audio is of greater importance to me.

My DeVores

Hi ajzepp,

I am a proud owner of the new DeVore Nines and I know I will be for a very long time... they continue to amaze me every time I listen.  Both the DeVore Super 8s and the Nines work beautifully with the Signature 30.2 or Signature 70.2s. 

I believe the DeVore Nines retail for $6,500, so it sounds like this is a little over glaesemann's budget, but the Super 8's are a couple grand less ($4500?).  For glaesemann's room, I think the Nines would more ideal than the Super 8's. 

For more info, see: www.devorefidelity.com

Alwayswantmore's suggestion of looking to Omegas is also a fine one!  A pair of MaxHemps and a pair of DeepHemp active subs would be most impressive, especially in a larger room!    Louis of Omega mentioned that he is going to toy with the idea of making a DeepHemp sub in the shape of the pedistal used for the MaxHemps.  Having the ability to fine-tune each DeepHemp to your room, the MaxHemp, and your listening tastes will be useful!
See: www.omegaloudspeakers.com


Another speaker that many Red Wine Audio customers really like, and in your budget, are the Zu Audio Druids, and they also have a mating sub called the Method or the smaller Mini Method, and they are coming out with a model called the Presence, which appears to be a pair of Druids in a larger enclosure that each houses a Mini-Method sub!  See:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zu12/presence.html and
www.zuaudio.com

Between the three brands listed above, you'll most likely find something that will have the ability to pull you away from those Maggies (I think!), but there are so many other options out there.  By including the three brands above, I do NOT mean to exclude others in any way.  I have customers running all sorts of different speakers from various horns, Harbeths, Quads, vintage speakers, and even DIY efforts such as the open-baffle speakers that Richard mentioned above.  There are so many possibilities and it comes down to how much time and effort you want to make in auditioning before buying. 

The Mac digital front end is what started the rethinking of the whole system. I sold my ARC CD3 and am REALLY enjoying the unmodded stock MacBook to USB/SPDIF conv. to DAC set-up. I can't wait to start tweaking the conversion aspect (ie. no USB and no SPDIF).

Which brings me to a DAC wish list. Please indulge me...
   - Ethernet in (ala Squeeze Box).
   - I2S - directly fed to the dac chip. No SPDIF in the path!
   - Clock out for sources with clock in.

The Isabella will feature a built-in dac that has a USB input.  The digital signal will be converted from USB direct to I2S (no intermediate conversion from USB to SPDIF like some other USB dacs do). 

There will also be two SPDIF inputs: 75-ohm coax as well as optical (Toslink).

I am not looking to get involved with Ethernet, nor clock out and other complexities... with the Isabella, I am confident that you'll be strongly connected with the music and not thinking about such complexities (especially when paired with a Signature 30.2 or 70.2s)! 
 
I hope you get the time to listen to at least a few different models of speakers.  Of course if you love those Magnepans, you might not ever need to change them.

Best regards,

Vinnie

[ajzepp]

I don't know if you'll be anywhere near Atlanta any time soon, Glaesemann, but the local DeVore dealer is a friend of mine and I'm sure I could get you a very attractive deal on a pair of Nines 

[2bigears]

my 70.2 are still on a truck somewhere,darn.can anyone tell me a story on how this will sound,+ or -  .Opus 21 GNS feeding a VAC Ren Sig 2 pre and 70.2 going to the Zu Definitions,man i am sorry but i can't wait on more second.....   what should i expect????????

[miklorsmith]

I haven't heard the Opus or the Vac, but it's gonna kick major ass.

[richs]

I have a pair of Gallo Ref 3.1's that I'm running with the Sig 30.  I haven't listened to the other speakers mentioned, but to my ears the Sig 30 and Gallo combination is simply other-worldly. On many tracks, I can't imagine the sound being any better (different maybe, but not better). I feed them with a battery powered DDDAC through USB off my laptop.  I don't find the Gallo's underpowered.  I have a pretty small room (14x14), and don't listen that loud, but I rarely turn the Sig 30 past 2:00.  I do have the separate sub amp for the Gallo's so that probably helps.

Rich

[ajzepp]

Rich:

Have you seen this? Pierre from Mapleshade loves those speakers.

[Alwayswantmore]

Alwayswantmore's suggestion of looking to Omegas is also a fine one!  A pair of MaxHemps and a pair of DeepHemp active subs would be most impressive, especially in a larger room!    Louis of Omega mentioned that he is going to toy with the idea of making a DeepHemp sub in the shape of the pedestal used for the MaxHemps.  Having the ability to fine-tune each DeepHemp to your room, the MaxHemp, and your listening tastes will be useful!
See: www.omegaloudspeakers.com

The Compact Hemp and Deep Hemp are both made out of the size same enclosure. And the Deep Hemp would be about the same height as the standard Skyland stand. Bottom line: The combination of Compact Hemp and Deep Hemp stacked might be a perfect match, in the spirit of Watt Puppies or Vandersteen 5s (both of which I've heard in showrooms, and neither of which IMO did as well as my Hemps (I also owned a Vandersteen 2W sub along with their $800 balanced crossover -- none of which IMO comes close to the Hemps for dynamics, detail and realism).

[Vinnie R.]

I have a pair of Gallo Ref 3.1's that I'm running with the Sig 30.  I haven't listened to the other speakers mentioned, but to my ears the Sig 30 and Gallo combination is simply other-worldly. Rich

Hi Rich,

That is another speaker that I've heard with the Sig 30 that sounds excellent with it!  Thanks for posting this recommendation.

The Compact Hemp and Deep Hemp are both made out of the size same enclosure. And the Deep Hemp would be about the same height as the standard Skyland stand. Bottom line: The combination of Compact Hemp and Deep Hemp stacked might be a perfect match, in the spirit of Watt Puppies or Vandersteen 5s (both of which I've heard in showrooms, and neither of which IMO did as well as my Hemps (I also owned a Vandersteen 2W sub along with their $800 balanced crossover -- none of which IMO comes close to the Hemps for dynamics, detail and realism).

Very cool idea and I can't wait to hear this for myself! 


All,

Here is the new Signature 30.2 webpage:

http://www.redwineaudio.com/Signature_30.2.html


Best regards,

Vinnie

[Vinnie R.]

Rich:

Have you seen this? Pierre from Mapleshade loves those speakers.

Speaking of Pierre from Mapleshade, I found this on his "free audio tips / upgrades" page:

You can't believe the extra harshness and grunge you hear due to home appliances "poisoning" the AC power with electrical noise. To really sweeten your sound, try turning off every fluorescent and halogen light in the house, as well as air conditioning, oil burner, electric stove, dimmer and CD boombox; unplug every surge protector, digital TV, computer and U.P.S. (because they all have "sleep" modes). No power conditioner and AC filter stops this "poisoning".

Here is my shameless plug version  :

You can't believe the extra harshness and grunge you hear due to home appliances "poisoning" the AC power with electrical noise.  To really sweeten your sound, go with off-the-grid components and you won't look back!  www.redwineaudio.com

Go ahead and leave those florescent and halogen lights on if you want to.  Keep that air conditioning on when it is too hot and you don't feel like sitting in a pool of your own sweat, keep the oil burner and electric stove running (you gotta eat, right?), use a dimmer switch if it sets the mood when listening, let your family use the computer, digital TV, etc.  Live a little!

 

Best regards,

Vinnie

[Zero]

Vinnie - you may want to put Totem Acoustic on the list, at least when it comes to low level listening.