[tanchiro58]

I am newbie to analog and just bought a Hagerman Bugle phono preamp. I am concerned and do not know which TTs and cartridges (high or low MM or MC?) should be matched well with a Bugle.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
Tan

[Bill Epstein]

You'll want at least a 2.5mV output from your cartridge. That leaves room for high output moving coils and all moving magnets.

Make use of the archives at the Vinyl Asylum and Vinyl Engine for the turntable and cart that best fits your budget and taste. The Technics SL-1200 is inexpensive and will play well beyond it's < $400 price at Musicians Friend. Look also at Goldring and Shure carts.

[hagtech]

It depends on how the BUGLE was built.  Did the original owner let you know what gain and loading it had?  I sell a stock version at 40dB (for MM), but the DIYers can build the BUGLE to any gain they want.  Some have built to 60dB, which works fine with most MC carts.

Check out Audio Advisor, Music Direct, etc. for budget turntable ideas.

jh

[doug s.]

You'll want at least a 2.5mV output from your cartridge. That leaves room for high output moving coils and all moving magnets.

Make use of the archives at the Vinyl Asylum and Vinyl Engine for the turntable and cart that best fits your budget and taste. The Technics SL-1200 is inexpensive and will play well beyond it's < $400 price at Musicians Friend. Look also at Goldring and Shure carts.

gain of the bugle can be increased by swapping resistors.  different gain walues w/different resistors are shown in a plug-in calculator on the hag-tech site.  are you saying that the bugle doesn't do so well w/low output cartridges, even when gain is set high enough for them? 

thanks,

doug s.

[tanchiro58]

are you saying that the bugle doesn't do so well w/low output cartridges, even when gain is set high enough for them? 

Doug,

I am not ready to purchase a TT which has a cartridge matches with my custombuilt Bugle. Therefore, I brought it to my friend who has a Thorens TD145 and Sumiko MC 2.5V output. The Bugle was connected to AR preamp which also has built-in phono. We had listened to a Bugle and he told me this phono preamp sounds pretty good but with a cartridge has more than 2.5V or 3 to 4 V it would sound much better.

This Bugle has been built for one main output with three other passive outputs which I think to match with different MM or MC cartridges. This is a well built phono by a knowledgeable and expererienced DIYer IMO. Besides I am a DIY's amateur so I do not know much about this complicated electronic experience.

The Bugle was connected to the AR preamp phono inputs it sounds good but when he switched to AUX positions there was no sound at all. Why? Would that happens to any other preamps? I have not tried in my preamp yet.

Anyways I thank you and appreciate all of your inputs.

Regards,
Tan

[doug s.]

are you saying that the bugle doesn't do so well w/low output cartridges, even when gain is set high enough for them? 

Doug,

I am not ready to purchase a TT which has a cartridge matches with my custombuilt Bugle. Therefore, I brought it to my friend who has a Thorens TD145 and Sumiko MC 2.5V output. The Bugle was connected to AR preamp which also has built-in phono. We had listened to a Bugle and he told me this phono preamp sounds pretty good but with a cartridge has more than 2.5V or 3 to 4 V it would sound much better.

This Bugle has been built for one main output with three other passive outputs which I think to match with different MM or MC cartridges. This is a well built phono by a knowledgeable and expererienced DIYer IMO. Besides I am a DIY's amateur so I do not know much about this complicated electronic experience.

The Bugle was connected to the AR preamp phono inputs it sounds good but when he switched to AUX positions there was no sound at all. Why? Would that happens to any other preamps? I have not tried in my preamp yet.

Anyways I thank you and appreciate all of your inputs.

Regards,
Tan

hi tan,

i am missing something here, or something is not being explained properly.  if the ar preamp actually has a built-in fono stage at its fono input, and is not a line stage yust labeled fono, then you would be able to run your turntable into it directly, w/o an additional fono stage - in fact, a second fono stage plugged into it would really screw up the sound.  (some line-stage-only preamps have a line input & corresponding selector switch position labeled "fono", so you know which position to set the source selector, when you use an outboard fono stage - if this is the case w/your friend's ar preamp, then the bugle would work fine at the "fono" position.)

for no sound at the aux positions, either there's something wrong w/the preamp, or you did not move the bugle's outputs to the proper aux input positions on the preamp.  all line stages of a preamp should be able to accept an outboard fono preamp, regardless of what they're labeled - "fono", "aux", "cd", "tuner", or anything else...

having additional passive outputs from a fono stage makes no sense to me at all - i do not even know what this means.  all fono stages are active stages.

i would think a 2.5mv cartridge output should be sufficient to work well w/a fono stage that has 40db of gain.  certainly a cartridge w/3-4mv would provide more gain.  as i said before, if your bugle is in fact set to 40db gain, it is a relatively easy resistor swap (either two or for, i forget) that can be made to increase the gain so that you can use cartridges w/relatively low outputs - i suspect even a 0.5mv output cartridge should work fine w/the bugle set to 60db of gain.  you could even solder in sockets so swapping out resistors can be done on the fly.

doug s.

[tanchiro58]

Doug,

I am awaiting my Thorens TD145 TT in two weeks. I will hook up the Bugle phono to my custombuilt preamp and let see what will happen. When my friend connected my Bugle to his AR preamp and told that he is sure the Bugle is a step up from MM to MC because he based on what he connected to phono the Bugle worked but when he switched to AUX it won't work. I told him it is something wrong with his AR preamp.

We also have tried the other three variable outputs and each output sounded differently. I only choose one output which had a best sound. I do not really know what the seller did to the Bugle but I only know he did an excellent job of building the Bugle from a half kit with a PS. I will post a picture of the Bugle soon in my gallery. Besides I also had an EAR 834P before and it had only one pair of input and another pair of output.

Anyways thanks for your time.

[doug s.]

Doug,

I am awaiting my Thorens TD145 TT in two weeks. I will hook up the Bugle phono to my custombuilt preamp and let see what will happen. When my friend connected my Bugle to his AR preamp and told that he is sure the Bugle is a step up from MM to MC because he based on what he connected to phono the Bugle worked but when he switched to AUX it won't work. I told him it is something wrong with his AR preamp.

We also have tried the other three variable outputs and each output sounded differently. I only choose one output which had a best sound. I do not really know what the seller did to the Bugle but I only know he did an excellent job of building the Bugle from a half kit with a PS. I will post a picture of the Bugle soon in my gallery. Besides I also had an EAR 834P before and it had only one pair of input and another pair of output.

Anyways thanks for your time.

the bugle is definitely not a step-up, but a complete fono-stage.  sounds like something is wrong w/your friend's preamp.

it is possible that the bugle you are getting has been built w/different gain taps, so resistor swapping isn't necessary, but i wasn't aware a build like this is possible w/the bugle.  i would query the builder as to exactly wazzup w/the different outputs. 

please post your findings about the bugle - ie: comparison to the ear would be nice.  i am curious because i bought a bugle a while back that someone else had built - full-size case w/inboard power supply - but i have yet to try it cuz i haven't gotten around to installing sockets & getting resistors to change the gain to match my ~0.35mv cartridge...

best,

doug s.

[tanchiro58]

please post your findings about the bugle - ie: comparison to the ear would be nice.  i am curious because i bought a bugle a while back that someone else had built - full-size case w/inboard power supply - but i have yet to try it cuz i haven't gotten around to installing sockets & getting resistors to change the gain to match my ~0.35mv cartridge...

Doug,

I will post pictures of my Bugle phono but I am not sure about the inside pictures since I had tried to open it up to see what components but could not do it. It seems it is very tight to open since the Bugle is built in a small aluminum case (for power supply).

Tan

[doug s.]

here's a coupla pics of the innards of mine:




doug s.

[Sarchi]

I am newbie to analog and just bought a Hagerman Bugle phono preamp. I am concerned and do not know which TTs and cartridges (high or low MM or MC?) should be matched well with a Bugle.

I've had very good results with a Nagaoka MP-11 MM and my 40dB Bugle.  And more recently, I picked up a Denon DL103 MC (0.3 mV I believe) and built a pair of Lundahl step up transformers.  These sound superb with the Bugle.  Lower noise floor, better everything.  MC + step-ups + low gain phono is a really ideal scenario in many ways.

And if you've been listening to a squeezebox....be prepared to be shocked.  You're gonna love vinyl.  Just take the time to set up your Thorens properly.