[ka7niq]

Just a few more bits. After 300 or so hours, I think the sound is stabilized. I've dialed back on the mids and highs to ca. 12:45 mids, 1:30 on the tweeters. Sound is very coherent and natural. I've added a second Carver D10 sub; the difference it made was not subtle. As I have a TV in the center, I couldn't center the sub, and even x'd over at 30 hz., the sound was weirdly unbalanced. Besides having more weight on the sub side, the integration of the upper range was clearly not right. Adding the second sub smoothed out the whole soundstage in a major way. I feel that the sound from the system is now correct from top to bottom.
The Carvers are still the weakest part; they don't have the speed of the RM30 bass units, but I've got them dialed back pretty far, so I can live with them.
Congrats on the Positve Feedback review- I'm looking forward to the whole review. His comments on the CDWG are interesting, and in line with my own. I do prefer them with the CDWGs in place, though. I'm not surprised at the outcome, of course. I've felt from the start that these were lifetime speakers for my real world environment.

You MAY wind up with an equalizer in line with the Carver subs ?
You may have a bass peak causing a "slow sound".

I owned one, and it sounded a lot better when I flattened a peak.

[jonbee]

What did you use to do that?

[spons]

jonbee,

Congrats on the RM30C's and thanks for sharing your experiences here and on AA. Do your speakers have a cutout for the side woofer blocked out? If so could you post a picture?

Andy

[jonbee]

The 30C looks exactly like the 30M- there is a grill covering the plate that fills the hole, just as there is with a woofer in place.

[Steerpike]

I just wanted to thank everyone on thw VMPS circle for helping me make up my mind about buying user BushBison's piano black RM30's, and Brian Cheney for his incredible products. I've used different models of Acoustats since 1982 and I can't believe I've changed brands. Way, way beyond my expectations! Yes, they took a while to set up appropriately (surprise - what doesn't?). I'm saving now for a brand new pair of RM30's, loaded, or maybe something else VMPS - I know the V60's will work wonders in my room...

I've posted my system and location on the "Auditions" sticky.

If I was to supply the serial numbers, would it be possible to find out exactly what my speakers have?

Finally, I have never posted on a forum before , but I just had to convey my appreciation. Thanks again!

[Brian Cheney]

IIRC BushBisons speakers have the old graphite woofers and stock caps.
Those woofer cones are smooth to the touch.  The new woven carbon fiber Megawoofers have a basketweave appearance.

[John Casler]

I just wanted to thank everyone on thw VMPS circle for helping me make up my mind about buying user BushBison's piano black RM30's, and Brian Cheney for his incredible products. I've used different models of Acoustats since 1982 and I can't believe I've changed brands. Way, way beyond my expectations! Yes, they took a while to set up appropriately (surprise - what doesn't?). I'm saving now for a brand new pair of RM30's, loaded, or maybe something else VMPS - I know the V60's will work wonders in my room...

I've posted my system and location on the "Auditions" sticky.

If I was to supply the serial numbers, would it be possible to find out exactly what my speakers have?

Finally, I have never posted on a forum before , but I just had to convey my appreciation. Thanks again!

Hi Steerpike,

Welcome to the VMPS Circle.

Glad you are enjoying your VMPS speakers, and you are correct that you will likely make continuous improvements in their sound and interaction with your system and room.

It just keeps getting better

[warnerwh]

Welcome Indeed Steerpike!  You have discovered one of the true great loudspeaker designs. When you consider cost it's truly a bargain.

Be sure to continue tweaking until you're sure you can't extract any more sound from your speakers. I say this because with my RM40s it kept surprising me how much better I could get them to sound.  Now it's so good considering a different speaker would likely be a downgrade and at a higher cost. Just to match the sound quality now would be difficult. Enjoyment is excellent so I'm happy.

Best wishes on your system.

[Housteau]

I've used different models of Acoustats since 1982 and I can't believe I've changed brands.

I know that same feeling after being an Infinity and Martin Logan loyalist for 17+ years.  I had some Acoustat 1+1s back in the day also.  In fact that is when I was first introduced to VMPS, by augmenting them with the Original VMPS Subwoofer.

[Steerpike]

Thanks for the kind responses! I think the first thing I should do is "complete" the RM30's I have by putting in the passive radiators for the CDWG's - the previous owner didn't get there, but I would like to - I suspect they will make a little more magic. But, there's no Canadian dealer (yet?), so from whom should I order the radiators?

By the way, if anyone is interested, I have a tough room, I think - it's lathe and plaster, about 21 feet long and of two widths; I listen down the length of the room. Where I sit, the room is about 9 feet long by 11 wide; then it narrows on one wall to about 9 feet for the rest of the length. At the point where it narrows, There's an arch that drops about a foot and half from the 9.5 foot ceilings (used to have my Acoustat 1+1's braced against that, which made big difference).

My speakers are located at the archway, about half in each part of the room, woofers facing in. My two subs are down at the listening end in the corners flanking the listening seat; I use the crossovers on the subwoofers but only as limiters on the subs, as they are driven directly from my pre-amp and the '30's run full range. The furniture and some judiciously applied room treatments help a lot. I'm running the '30's with the CDWG's, and even without the ELAC supertweeters, the soundstage is incredibly deep, wide and high(with them, the walls are whatever are on the recording!).
Cheers

[jonbee]

Just a bit of an update. It's been 6 mos. since I got my RM30s, and I've made several changes to my system, all with the goal of wringing even more out of these amazing speakers.
I changed my PS Audio PCA-2/HCA-2 pre/amp to the newer PS Audio GCC-100 integrated. It has notably better definition and transparency, but is leaner sounding. The answer? Cut back a bit on the mid pot, and the balance is once again perfect, but now with the higher rez. Very cool.
I've found that biwiring is hugely better, and that removing the woofer grills definitely improves integration of the lower mids.
I changed the pure silver cables I was using on both legs to silver plated copper (Mapleshade) on the woofers, and pure silver on the mids/highs, and that added a welcome touch of body to the mids.
The biggest imporvement came from spending $100 on a pair of 2x4 ft. absorption panels from here:

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html

I placed them directly behind the speakers.

It took some convincing to get my wife on board, but after she heard them she agreed about the improvement, and doesn't mind to looks too much. For me, I think it was the best $100 I've spent in years. These panels are very well made, and are a true bargain. The improvement in imaging was dramatic, and I feel like I'm much closer to hearing what the speakers can do.

I added a second Carver D-10 sub, which was a big improvememnt over one, and since the cabinets were a bit resonant, I "veneered" them with granite. They are much tighter now, and x'd over at 30 hz. (36 db/octave) they finally integrate to my satisfaction.

Now my total system is truly the most satisfying I've heard- at any price. I've heard many systems priced above $20k, several over $50k, and  one over $200k. There are certainly things some of these systems have done better- some with deeper, louder bass, some with a larger soundstage, and some with better imaging in some parts of the spectrum. For overall believability, naturalness, and a presentation that you can listen to all day without a hint of fatigue, this system takes the prize for me. And, of course, the RM30s are jewels in the setting.
Thanks again, B.

[warnerwh]

I'm certainly happy your speakers have worked out well for you.  I'm also glad to hear you tried some room treatment. Acoustics can make a PROFOUND effect on your system's sound.  If you can sneak in some bass traps too you'll be glad you did.  If I didn't have a dedicated room I'd go through the trouble of building a false wall behind my system with absorption from bass through treble built in. This wouldn't cost much and would be easy to build. Covering it could be left up to the female.

My system with RM 40's is as good as I've heard too. A friend with RM 30's who has helped set up systems at Nuts about HiFi in Silverdale, WA and has heard many super high end systems/speakers claims his RM 30's sound as good as anything he heard in there and the room was designed by Jim Thiel so you know the acoustics had to be excellent. So yes I know exactly what you mean. Pretty amazing isn't it?

If you want to make more significant improvements I'm telling you that acoustic treatments are the way to go especially dollar for dollar.

[jonbee]

I'd do a lot more treatments, but we live in a high rise condo, so the stereo is in the living room. My wife has very high standards about the look of the room, so I feel I've gone as far as I can.
It was interesting to see you mentioning Nuts About Hifi. I live in Seattle, and have been there many times. The room you refer to is the most amazing listening room I've ever seen. It is underground, but is actually built as a listening room, not just a basement. The ceilings are about 10', and the room is around 20 by 30 feet. I heard a $200k system there with Wilson Grand slams, set up by David Wilson, powered by a $100k Krell stack. It was and is the most impressive sound I've ever heard. However, save for the image size, bass extension and sheer scale, my system provides as accurate a depiction of the event as that system. (I listened to some of my music on the big rig, so I do have a reference point). That says a lot.

[warnerwh]

Well you obviously understand exactly.   I kept meaning to go in to that store as my friend used to live nearby and knows the owner. In Portland we don't have anything like that I'm aware of.  What I have heard though nothing makes my system seem lacking in any way. I've not heard super spendy speakers in a 100k plus system but have a feeling there's a serious amount of diminishing returns going on. I'd bet the V60's with good subs would match or come very close to any of these speakers that cost well into 5 figures and even 6 figures.  Even if I were very wealthy paying 100k or anything close for speakers wouldn't happen. I'd just order the V60's and a pair of VLAs which would be put in a room that Ethan Winer designed for me. Probably buy an Adcom amp and preamp and call it good.(just kidding)

I have listened to large Thiels and B&W's through Krell gear. We also listened to the exact same speakers through Rotel gear but a different cd player. The difference was subtle albeit significant. The money difference though was huge.

If you ever come to Portland call me if you'd like to come by. I always enjoy having other audiophiles over. My number is on the dealer list page.