[raztec]

Hi everyone

I've got an by 11'x22' room with 6'8" ceiling which I recently converted into a HT room. Half of it is taken up by a bar/kitchenette so I really don't have a lot of room to move speakers far from the wall.

I need some help deciding between some components and though I've done a search I'm a little stuck.

I will use it for about 60/40 audio/video and the music I listen to is quite eclectic: radiohead, african, keith jarret, classical indian, thievery corporation etc.

I will be using a 6.0 system with a phantom centre and am hold out on the sub for now. But I will have 4 in-ceiling speakers for the surround.

So far I've narrowed it down to:

Speakers max budget $2000

Ascend 340
Sapphire XLs
AV123 Strata Mini
Green Mountain Europa

Surround Receiver max budget $1500

Panasonic XR series
Sherwood Newcastle 871
Arcam AVR 300
Rotel 1057
Sony STR DA3000ES

Are any of the above lacking features that I will miss in the near future?

I haven't done any research yet on a DVD/CD player or Plasma/LCD  tv yet. A friend of mine who's a sound engineer says just get the cheapest of these since the technology is always changing rapidly. I thought a good CD player was essential for sound quality?

Sorry for all the questions. If anyone's got experience with any of these and can give me some feedback, I'd really appreciate it.

I'd especially like to know if there's a combination of a reciever + speakers that work really well. Or if my money would be better spent getting separate amps for music and movies.

Thanks
Raz

[JimJ]

For the receiver, I'd choose either the Rotel or the Arcam...maybe Outlaw Audio seperates 

Speakers are a tough call.

[lonewolfny42]

11'x22' room with 6'8" ceiling

I will use it for about 60/40 audio/video and the music I listen to is quite eclectic: radiohead, african, keith jarret, classical indian, thievery corporation etc.

Speaker ranking.....

1.....AV123 Strata Mini (see latest issue of Tone Audio for review...check their circle)
2....Sapphire XLs
3....Green Mountain Europa
4....Ascend 340

[musicman06]

That's an interesting hodgepodge of choices. With the ACI XL's you'll really want a sub for HT and some music... very nice speakers though. The Strata Minis are floorstanders with built-in 8" subs and are by no means mini - shipweight is about 315lbs for the pair. They also review very well, but are quite different from the monitor speakers like the Sapphires. You need to decide which type best suits your setup. I'll toss out Selah Audio as a name to look at further as well. I ended up choosing Rick's product as a better value than ACI and better fit than AV123.

For the DVD or CDP you can use the digital out and the processor chip in your receiver making the player a transport and that's generally why you'd go the cheap route. Though that is debatable just like the value of high priced speaker wire ...

[Bob Reynolds]

If I was starting from scratch I wouldn't bother with passive speakers at all. Consider any of the pro active speakers (from a manufacturer with a matching subwoofer), run inexpensive cable from Blue Jeans Cable, use an Outlaw pre/pro and any decent dvd player (middle road Denon for example) is fine.

Best of luck.

[raztec]

If I was starting from scratch I wouldn't bother with passive speakers at all. Consider any of the pro active speakers (from a manufacturer with a matching subwoofer), run inexpensive cable from Blue Jeans Cable, use an Outlaw pre/pro and any decent dvd player (middle road Denon for example) is fine.

Why not passive speakers? (what's the drawback?)
Any recommendations for speakers?

Thanks again,
Raz

[Bob Reynolds]

If I was starting from scratch I wouldn't bother with passive speakers at all. Consider any of the pro active speakers (from a manufacturer with a matching subwoofer), run inexpensive cable from Blue Jeans Cable, use an Outlaw pre/pro and any decent dvd player (middle road Denon for example) is fine.

Why not passive speakers? (what's the drawback?)
Any recommendations for speakers?

Thanks again,
Raz

Fundamentally, a passive crossover has problems: the components must be large to handle speaker level voltages and current (thus, more costly than those that would handle line level signals), such component's tolerances are not that precise (without the cost increasing substantially) - thus, for any batch of speakers the variance will be large, the filter doesn't really work that well unless components are added to compensate for the reactive nature of the driver - thus increasing the cost. Typical passive crossovers are 2nd order so the frequency band that the driver's interact is fairly large. Fourth order seems to be the practical limit.

All that being said, there are manufacturers that do well with the limitations of a passive design, e.g., Paradigm, Revel, Thiel.

There's also the issue of paying for a general purpose amplifier rather than one designed for a specific speaker driver.

You might find this pair of articles of interest: http://www.sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

You can find several examples of active speakers here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=1641

IMO, audiophiles have been shooting themselves in the foot for many years shunning active speaker systems -preferring to mix and match equipment from different manufacturers hoping to discover some holy grail. I admit to having done some of that myself -- it's been a fairly expensive education. Paradigm offered an active version of their Studio 20s years ago and it should have done very well in the market, but it didn't. NHT's new Xd system will probably fair better due to the home theater market.

+++++

If I had to pick passive speakers, I would look at NHT Evolution 5 or 6 system, Snell LCR7, Lipinski -- all sealed -- Revel for ported designs and maybe Phase Technology.

Amplifiers would be the balanced multichannel AT2000 series or AT3000 series.


Hope some of this helps.

[JLM]

I 2nd Bob's opinion of passive versus active speakers.  Years ago a comparison of Paradigm Active 20s ($1600/pair small 2 way standmount) versus Studio 20s ($800/pair, nearly identical, just passive) was an ephiphany.  The Active 20s were ruler flat, extremely dynamic, and you'd swear there was a sub hooked up (that's how much more bass extension was there).  The downside for HT is the need to run power to all those speaker locations.

A compromise would be the use of single driver speakers.  These designs are active by default.  Highs can beam like a flashlight, they can have problems going super loud, and typically have limited bass (but an HT sub would take care of that).  But the coherency can't be built, the money goes into one good driver versus many parts, and of course the amp has a direct coupling to the driver.  I own both Ascend Acoustics and single driver speakers, but a comparison would be unfair (one of the single drivers cost more than a pair of Ascends).

If possible, I'd try to steer clear of in-wall speakers, unless music is a high priority, due to the limited quality that in-walls can provide.  I've not heard them, but one option to stay within budget with 5 or 6 freestanding single driver speakers can be found here:  http://www.tbisound.com/.  TBI builds tiny, but remarkable subs.  The little Diamonds are supposed to be insensitive to placement and are single driver designs.  They are single driver designs so you only need to route speaker wires.

An obvious choice for good quality/inexpensive DVD player would be one of the Oppo players:  http://www.oppodigital.com/

[raztec]

Thanks for the info guys

Will active and passive speakers work together?

For music, I'm think the Tannoy speakers, as my R & L. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1641&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=382460&is=REG

...to be driven by this amp:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MURANO-AUDIO-P-1000S-PLUS-ICEpower-MONOBLOCK-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ180103256906QQihZ008QQcategoryZ67786QQcmdZViewItem

For HT, I will use a surround sound reciever like the ones mentioned before to drive the Tannoy speakers, use a phantom centre channel and a passive pair of in-ceiling speakers from Audio Concepts: http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/bflat/coax65.htm

Will this set up work? And if so, how complicated will it be to setup?

Thanks again,
Raz

[machine]

How about the LMC-1 and LPA-1 combo from Emotiva? (www.emotiva.com)

$899.00 for the pair, HDMI switcher included, SHIPS FREE!

I have this and it is very nice for the $$$, and would free up ~$600 you could use to increase the speaker budget.

For my large family room 2 channel listening I use a Squeeze Box into a Millenium DAC 1B into the Analog bypass and it sounds awesome.

Moving $600 into the speaker budget and looking for used ones might be a good idea.

Especially if you like moderate to loud levels, larger floorstanders may be a better bet. (No replacement for Displacement!).

Haven't heard any of your proposed selections, although I've heard the Mini Stratas are nice (Was on pre-order myself but canceled it due to the wait).  These are a more intimate speaker and may not fill that room if you like louder listening levels.