[ohenry]

I was thinking (maybe a little too much) about trying the Tufoil to lubricate my trusty old VPI HW-19 Jr.  I notice on the VPI website, they recommend a smear of lithium-based grease to the shaft and bearing once per year.  I would imagine that the greased spindle/bearing creates a little more friction as compared to a Tufoil lubricated spindle/bearing.  Could reducing friction possibly be determental to speed stability?

Think of it this way.  That tiny amount of drag may mimic the effects of having a heavier platter when it comes to inertial force.  I guess I'm trying to convey that changes of speed may not occur quite as instantaneously with grease as it would with some super slick concoction.

Right now my TT has reasonable speed stability, and by strobe disc, is turning proper RPMs.  Do you think I could compromise its speed stability with Tufoil?   

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Henry!

I'm lucky - don't think as deep - just do mostly when it makes sense.

Can't say I ever thought of the speed stability angle to the equation.....but Tufoil has subtly to dramatically changed the bearing noise level that eventually reaches your speakers and your ears. It was merely a subtle change to the VPI Mark III, but rather gigantic to the Thorens TD-316.  I think the bearings in the VPI's are of higher quality than the Thorens 300 models...so the benefit of Tufoil is mitigated.

Nonetheless, if you spin the platter without belt on it before and after application of Tufoil, it spins quite a bit longer with Tufoil than with a variety of other oils you may put in that main bearing.  I think lower drag is in all ways good for belt drive turntable performance.

btw, my VPI manual recommends Mobil 1 in the bearing well....a substance far closer to Tufoil than lithium grease.  I truly think that if VPI ever got a hold of some Tufoil and used it, they'd be most heartily recommending it today 

I've tried Singer sewing oil, Marvel Mystery oil, 5W30 Castrol, mineral oil, and probably some others over the years....nothing was remotely as beneficial as Tufoil.  Note - I don't think I've tried Slick 50, Prolong, etc.....but I really think these are more slickly marketed, and less effective frictionally, versions of Tufoil-like substances.

It's only about $15 to try it, it's reversible and whatever the 98% that is left, does nicely in your crankcase (3-5% better mileage, fairly large reduction in engine temps, and while I can't corroborate any HP gains, my vehicles have all been more responsive to accelerator application after adding Tufoil since 1991)

[ohenry]

Thanks John,
I have a small container of Tufoil that I ordered a while back and I'll give it a try tonight.  If it doesn't work out, I can always go back to being a greaser (another archaic expression from the aged).  It's definitely worth a shot. 

When it comes to this turntable, for some reason, I just think it works good enough and it is, what it is.  So it has remained mint and stock.  Maybe this will be an eye-opener.

[TheChairGuy]

It won't do any permanent harm , Henry....just wipe it all clean with some isopropyl alcohol and q-tips if not completely satisfied.

I know what you mean tho...once you have something that sounds good you don't want tot tamper for fear that you'll never get back into the 'zone' again  This is completely reversible tho with little efforts if not happy.

Again, the improvement wasn't dramatic on my VPI (I don't know if Jr. and MK III bearing are different in those models)....but it was easy enough to notice the benefit. For other, lesser tables with less precise bearings used, the effect becomes quite large and really beneficial.

I'd love to hear your listening results.... aa

John

[Psychicanimal]

I figure a next move to improve my Creature on Steroids is to use a top lubricant.  However, I haven't tried it because:

1) The Creature is still in the box
2) I don't want to mess things up

I do know for a fact that the 2000 hrs oiling regime is destined to keep the bottom of the bearing oiled and when filled to the top the sound improvenment is not small.

***

[mdelrossi]

I tried Tuffoil in my VPImklll and found I needed to boost the speed settings on my plc. The Tufoil is really thick.
I ended up doing a 50/50 of Slick50 and Tufoil, works great here.
good luck
mdr

[Wayner]

ohenry,

I have the same table and have been using Slick 50 on the shaft. The speed is dead on and because it's a copolymer, helps to reduce noise. If you have Tufoil, use it!

W aa

[Steve]

Hi TCG,

     Saw this thread and I also wonder about the pros and cons of a great lubricant.

Some years ago, I developed a lubricant that actually worked in video head bearings of vcrs (that already had bearing lubricant problems), and it worked most of the time. Not bad considering how sensitive the bearings are. Even synthestic oils will ruin things if applied.

 I thought about marketing it, but didn't know if it would be applicable to TTs and other devices.

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Steve!!

I only know that Tufoil works wonders for me in two decks - it is in Guinness Book for worlds most slipperiest substance.

Other than obvious benefit of the lowest coefficient of drag among available lubricants, I do not know what else a lubricant should do in a belt drive bearing well 

I am a Marketing guy, as you know, not any technical-type person.

[lord dubious]

Hi All
I own a cheap turntable and do nothing to the bearing.  I have no direct experience on which to draw in relation to this matter.
However, I read an article a long while ago about the design philosophy behind the Platine Verdier.
From memory, it goes something like this.
The drag of a stylus on a record varies and can cause changes to the motion of the record (very small I would guess).  A turntable motor, even with a regulated power supply, cannot react quickly enough to compensate for these changes.  Variations in the motion of the record can affect the sound of your music.
To minimize the effect of these variations, you want the energy losses caused by the drag of the stylus on the record to be very small in relation to the energy loss caused by friction in the bearing, that is to say, you do not want the platter to spin freely.
By this argument, grease is the better option, and an air suspended platter (that results in practically no friction) would be the worst option.
I reiterate, I have no experience in this matter.  I am merely offering some food for thought.
Regards to all

[TheChairGuy]

Interesting, lord dubious (love the moniker  ) - don't know the answer myself to the question of which is better

I know only on the two decks used, VPI Mk. III and Thorens, the effect over all others tried was the most beneficial.  With the Thorens, it was hair-raising betterment; with the VPI it was merely a bit better.  I attributed it to higher quality bearings on the VPI to begin with (less friction to begin with - less rumble to begin with and less to improve, natch' ), but it may be due to certain design differences, too.

Beats me - it's reversible for $16 if you don't like it, fortunately.

[Steve]

"I only know that Tufoil works wonders for me in two decks - it is in Guinness Book for worlds most slipperiest substance."

>>Well, I guess that answers my question.

Thanks.