[James Romeyn]

For a VMPS RM-V60 Music Wing employed as a center speaker: Three 6.5" midbass drivers sited horizontally near the floor, one faces forward flanked by side drivers at 45-degree angles (one per Wing).  Ribbon array above 260 Hz only 5" wide starting 12" above the floor up to about 67".  Ceiling is 8'. 

The side front speakers will be outside the screen.

So...what's the price range for a decent perforated screen, must be retractable but manual is fine, ceiling mount OK, about 90" diagonal...Light control will be very good to excellent, projector will probably be under $2k.

Thanks all!

[ctviggen]

If you're talking retractable, you're talking large cash.  Supposedly, Stewart and Screen Research are very good.  Screen Research is also very good colorwise, but not great in gain.  I'd estimate 3k, if not 4-5k.  For instance, here is MSRP for SR:

$3700 for a 96-inch wide, 16:9 fixed-frame version (with Supreme Velour covered frame), without black backing (power retractactable version), $5200.

$4150 for a 96-inch wide, 16:9 fixed-frame version (with Supreme Velour covered frame), with black backing (power retractactable version), $6125).

From:  http://www.ultimateavmag.com/screens/605clearpix/index1.html

I'd have to get the black backing, so you're talking over 6k MSRP! 

See review at: 

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/screens/605clearpix/index1.html

On another note, wouldn't the V60 be too close to the wall to be used as a center?

[James Romeyn]

...wouldn't the V60 be too close to the wall to be used as a center?

Ouch!...owee....blamo!  Activate the 911 system!  After the features were considered seemed like a good time to fasten the seat belt.     

You are probably right that the 60 will benefit more than other vmps ribbons by increased spacing to the front wall.  Increasing that distance will decrease the screen to seat distance if the screen goes IFO the center & the speakers are on the 27' wall.  With the speakers on the 17' there's more space to move the seats back (haven't figured out yet which wall is best for the intended Trinaural system: V60 center, 626jr or RM30 L/R.) 

How much less frightening are the above screen prices, 72" to 96" (if they exist)?

A 16 x 19 room could be seperately dedicated to HT.  But I've got a bug to devise a dual-use system w/ one V60 center.  Pass me a Wing please!

Thanks for your help!

On a related note: A friend just got a 120" Stewart perforated screen.  Why did Stewart need to know the exact locations behind the screen for the three front speakers?  What could be the reason other than different characteristics at those points?  Would that not result in different image reflection performance at those points? 
 

[bubba966]

On a related note: A friend just got a 120" Stewart perforated screen.  Why did Stewart need to know the exact locations behind the screen for the three front speakers?  What could be the reason other than different characteristics at those points?  Would that not result in different image reflection performance at those points?

Having installed a Stewart Micro-Perf screen that was 12'9" wide x 5'6" tall (2.35:1) I can guess that they want that info as there's two vertical tubes put at about thirds in the frame so that it won't sag. So you've got 4 verticals (one on each end, and the two spaced out between the ends) & 2 horizontals (top & bottom of frame).

I can imagine that they'd want the 2 verticals to be out of the way of the speakers.

[James Romeyn]

Bubba
As obvious as I am dumb!  Thanks for the info!

How do you decide between 16:9 & 2.35:1?

[ctviggen]

2.35:1 requires special equipment.  For me, the cost of the scaler (typically a lens system, along with a system internal to the projector) is too much.  If you were to go non-pulldown, you could get acoustically transparent material for not a huge chunk of change.  It's going pulldown (i.e., basically electric) that makes it expensive.  There are other manufacturers of acoustically transparent materials.  For instance, here's one (92") from Draper for $2,800:

http://www.htmarket.com/salpp-acu-169.html

[ted_b]

Jim,
Obvious option two: Put an RM30 or RM40 on its side (heck, you sold me a center RM30 back when...).  The cost savings in doing a horizontal RM40 (maybe used) and a standard screen material is huge.  I mean, I realize center channels are very important, and IDENTICAL front soundstage is a noble goal, but a horizontal RM40 would be a killer center for the V60's. 

[James Romeyn]

What about building a frame for a fixed screen (72" to 96").  I'm tall enough to easily reach the 8' ceiling;  maybe the frame could have hooks on top to hang from the ceiling.  Alternatively, maybe put the frame on wheels.

OTOH, the cost for the wood may be similar to the pull-down upgrade.  

[James Romeyn]

Long story justifying a perforated screen

Yes, I considered the 30 & 40 as centers.  Problem is I heard the V60.  Second problem is I heard the new SST Ambrosia preamp.  While reading about the Ambrosia, the Trinaural info caught my attention, again.  Reliable sources indicate great potential when the quality of the center speaker exceeds the L/R speakers. 

At CES '06 & '07 I heard the Pass Labs "XA" amps in numerous ultra-high end rooms.  Besides marry-me cosmetics & pure class-A SS power, they sound super, have a heralded pedigree, test well objectively, & signs are they are as reliable as paying taxes.  Even though expensive, $5k/ea MSRP for the "XA60" is reasonable at this level, if the word can be applied at all to audio. 

Relative cost speakers & amps, 2-ch. vs. Trinaural

2-ch

Two L/R channels VMPS RM-V60 Music Wing + Auricaps $10k/pr
For V-60 midbass two 1000W P.E. bass amps w/ active xo & parametric eq $900/pr
For V-60 ribbon array Pass Labs "XA60" 60W pure class-A monobloc $10k/pr
Subtotal above 6 pieces $20,900 

Trinaural

One Trinaural Processor $1600/ea
One center channel VMPS RM-V60 Music Wing + Auricaps $5k/ea
For V-60 midbass one 1000W P.E. bass amp w/ active xo & parametric eq $450/ea
For V-60 93.5 dB ribbon array Pass Labs "XA60" 60W pure class-A monobloc $5k/ea 
Two L/R channels VMPS 626jr + OXO/stands + Megawoofers, about $1900/pr   
For two 626jr one Odyssey stereo amp estimated $2k/ea
Subtotal above 7 pieces $15,950

The Trinaural saves $4950 & might sound better (will audition shortly).  Besides the Trinaural's beneficial fullrange effects, the fact there are three midbass sources should spread room mode distribution in that range.        

For HT it seems fair to assume the V60 center will beat the 30 or 40, whether vertical or horizontal. 

[Se7en]

I use a 92" 16x9 screen research and I am very happy with it. It is a motorized unit that I picked up used from videogon for about $1800 (not too bad). The original list was around 45-4800 but if you do some looking around you may be able to find a sweet deal. As far as acoustical transparency goes screen research is the top of the line but like others have said in this string it does come at the expense of gain and that means that your room will be more sensitive to light pollution in general.

[bubba966]

Bubba
As obvious as I am dumb!  Thanks for the info!

It's not exactly obvious if you've not seen a screen that big before...

How do you decide between 16:9 & 2.35:1?

For video of any sort you'll want a 16:9 screen. You don't want a 2.35:1 screen as that's for some very specialized hardware that you don't just pick up at your local HT shop.

[James Romeyn]

...your room will be more sensitive to light pollution in general.

It's a basement room w/ only one moderately sized window & lightwell; light control should be good.

Thanks for all the info.

[ctviggen]

I use a 92" 16x9 screen research and I am very happy with it. It is a motorized unit that I picked up used from videogon for about $1800 (not too bad). The original list was around 45-4800 but if you do some looking around you may be able to find a sweet deal. As far as acoustical transparency goes screen research is the top of the line but like others have said in this string it does come at the expense of gain and that means that your room will be more sensitive to light pollution in general.

When did you buy that?  I think I was looking to buy that screen, but I did not (and still do not) have a projector.  Also, I was thinking more along the lines of 100-106 inch screen, so I was unsure whether the size would be big enough.  What do you think of the size?  (i.e, Is 92" big enough?)

[James Romeyn]

My friend's brother-in-law heard coworkers compare screen sizes on their new TVs.  He got 120" because he wanted the largest "screen". 

[Rob Babcock]

How do you decide between 16:9 & 2.35:1?

For video of any sort you'll want a 16:9 screen. You don't want a 2.35:1 screen as that's for some very specialized hardware that you don't just pick up at your local HT shop.

Someday I will do a Constant Image Height setup.  Might be a couple years down the road, but I'm gonna do it eventually.

FWIW I've hated every perf screen I've ever seen- the ones with the smallest perfs look tolerable but sound bad, the ones with the biggest perfs sound tolerable but look terrible (it creates awful moire, IMOHO).  There are some weave materials that are supposed to look great and be acoustically transparent, but I've yet to try one.  Lots of discussion at AVS though.