[dspringham]

Presently running de Capo-i's with Wyetech Labs Coral linestage and Onyx SET monoblocks (13 "beefy" wpc).
Sound is great with de Capos on Ref 3A phenolic/adjustable stands, however I'm wondering about the Veena. Not many reviews out yet on this speaker (realizing it's only been out for slightly over a year or so). UHF magazine has reviewed and the opinions seem mixed. Not much to go on.

Any sonic benefits to be had with the Veena?

Paul Anderson are you out there? comments

[panderso]

Here I am.

I owned the Veena, but although I auditioned the De Capo i in my den, it was a long time before the Veenas, and on lesser electronics.  Clearly the Veena is capable of far more substantial bass. Voice on the Veenas was very lovely indeed;real presence there.   The Veena may produce too much bass for smaller rooms, without de-tuning with acoustic fibre in the ports, which can be obtained through Reference 3a. That works well though. 

If you don't need all the bass the Veena offers, does it improve substantially on the De Capo, or even the Dulcet (the latter for smaller rooms)? 

I'd say that is a very subjective and room-dependent call.  Between the De Capos and Veena, I wouldn't care to guess without more time with the de Capo on the same system.  For my part, after some months I  went back to the Dulcets;very content. I don't say they are the better speaker, but they may be ideal for some small room, near-field applications.

 I never did buy the tube amp set-up that you would expect to optimize the Veenas or De Capos. At the time, I was trying different speakers to get the best out of a Naim system. My experience suggests, not conclusively,  that the Dulcet may partner well with a broader range of SS integrateds. However, Naim and Reference 3a speakers did not make an ideal partnership, at least not for me.

UHF was a little lukewarm on the Veenas compared to the De Capos, but the review didn't reveal that a recent or direct comparison was done; I got the impression the editors were relying on nostalgia favoring the De Capo, and were tired when listening to the Veenas.  A number of my friends do think the Veena far superior, more refined, and more complete. FWIW.

Cheers,
               Paul

[dspringham]

Thanks Paul for your insight,

I had previously purchased de Capo-i and thought the Veena might be an upgrade but to my ears it ultimately ended up being a trade-off.
I decided to stay with the de Capo's.
The Veena did offer more fullness in the bass and the high end was relatively smooth for a more laid back presentation, but it did not (in my room at least) have the nice midrange (albeit slightly elevated) that the de Capo's have. The midrange and high end transparency for which the de Capo is known imparts a certain amount of forwardness to the music, which to me adds more exitement. To the music just seemed more alive.
Also the added efficiency of the de Capo design helped my SET monoblocks play to a louder level if desired, even though the majority of my listening is at lower levels - at these levels the SET/de Capo combo is especially nice. The forward midrange/upper end preserves the presence of the music at low levels. Also, don't really miss the added bass output of the Veena. The de Capo can produce nice bass when the music calls for it.
The de Capo is true to the Daniel DeHay design phylosophy. I'm not sure (being retired) if he had anything to do with the Veena design since it is relatively new to the Ref 3A line.
I'm wondering how the de Capo would perform with a hybrid integrated amplifier (may be my next purchase). Thinking Pathos Classic One MkII or Unison Research Unico .... any thoughts?

[panderso]

Dspringham,
                   Interesting observations, and certainly consistent with the UHF view, FWIW.  Your account makes me want to bring in some De Capos again for a fresh listen with my current system. I suspect they'll do much better with the
well-used SimAudio I-5 purchased last spring, than with the amps I had before.

I too am intrigued with the idea of partnering with the Pathos Classic hybrid.  I've heard good things about its synergy with the Dulcets from a couple of sources, including Chris Thomas, who writes for Hi Fi +.  It may do nicely with De Capos as well, although I'd like to try De Capos with SETS. 

I'm left a little unclear between the Reference 3a website and other reports; do you know whether the De Capo i has a new, new tweeter? That is; new since the de Capo i came out, replacing the former de Capo?  If so, is that the one you have, and was the change significant?

cheers,
            -paul-

[dspringham]

Hey Paul,

Regarding the tweeter on the de Capo I'm not aware of any change since the update related to the de capo to de capo-i variation.
You can phone Tash at Divergent Technology and he'll let you know for sure. By the way, Tash is a great representative for Ref 3a. I had questioned him to death before settling on my purchase of the de capo's from my local dealer and he has always been upfront, knowledgable and very patient - never felt like I was wasting his time (unlike many other manufacturers spokemen). Let us know if you do get any info on  tweeter change.

As mentioned I originally puchased the de capo and thought I was missing out on something so I home auditioned the Veena. During the audition I changed my mind every day over the course of 5 as to which speaker to finally settle. Finally decided to keep the de capos since they just brought infused exitement to the music even thought the Veena may have been more balanced but with a more mellow, laid back presentation.

Also, I was fortunate to be able to get a pair of the older style reference 3A adjustable stands (dealer demos as were the speakers) - the stands are the phenolic ones (nice and heavy and inert). The new ones are made out of MDF since the older style was too expensive to produce. I really like these stands since they allow alot of flexibility and experimentation with regards to height. Also, a Ref 3a dealer in Toronto put me onto the idea of placing the stands on hardwood (maple) slabs rather than spiking through the carpet into the plywood subfloor. On his suggestion I puchased "butcher block" cutting boards from Ikea. They are about 1-1/4" thick and come in a square and rectangular shape with the square being slightly larger than the base of the stands. I just put the stands (with spikes) on the slabs which in turn rest on the surface of the carpet. This arrangement made a noticable improvement in the tighness of the bass along with an increase in the width and depth of soundstage.

I've been running the de capos with some recently purchased Wyetech Labs tube gear - Coral linestage with Onyx SET monoblocks. I don't have a large frame of reference since I have just gotten back into hi-fi (after about a 20 year absence). The last few years I have been preoccupied with home theatre and have put together a good system with which I am now satisfied. With a renewed interest in hi-fi I realized that I could not integrate a satisfactory 2 channel system within the home theatre setup. Hence a second system for the main floor.  Sorry for the rambling! What was this thread about?

Anyway, the de capos work very well with the Wyetech system. Nice open, articulate sound - not overly "tubey" but quite neutral. Sounds especially nice at low to moderate listening levels with some smooth jazz. With the right equipment, the de capos really can throw a great soundstage. Due to the efficiency of the de capos and the high dynamic range/headroom of the Wyetech Onyx monos, this system can more than fill the listening room (which is quite large and very open - 16 foot ceiling).

Anyways, I kept harkening back to the infamous Sam Tellig review of the Pathos Classic One in Stereophile and was curious as to what kind of synergy it would have with the de capos (thinking that this amps silky/SET type mid/high end sound would be a compliment to that of the de capos). Well my curiousness got the best of me and today I took delivery of a Classic One MkII.

I quickly rushed home from the office with the new amplifier under my arm and hastily made the connection to my system. I turned on the amplifier and punched-up some familiar, well recorder music (I'm running a MacBook laptop with i-tunes/lossless encoded source material mated via USB to a Wavelength Audio Cosecaant DAC). First impression was nice and smooth, good tight bass, well balance overall. Soundstage decent though not spectacular. Listened for a while and then prepared to switch over to Wyetech gear for comparision. At this point I then realized that in my haste  to conect the Pathos I had connected the right speaker out of phase with the left. Duh! Upon making the correction, things got interesting. Replaying the same music resulted in the soundstage jumping back what seemed like 3 feet behind the speakers. It really opened up. Of course the bass improved now that everything was in phase.

Anyway (this post is getting a little long in the tooth - sorry), I need to listen a whole lot more to get a feel for this combination, but my initial reaction is that this may be a great combination. The highs are very smooth and detailed but not quite as "airy" as with the Wyetech SET chain. The resolution is certainly there (with the Pathos) and is nicely translated by the de capos, however with the Wyetechs there just seem to be a slight amount more crispness and airiness (on things such as well recorded acoustic guitar strings ie. Eric Clapton's "Back Home" or Damien Rice "Cannonball"). The Pathos of course will play louder (Wyetech monos rated at 13 rms/channel but lots of current drive).  All in all the Pathos is just really nice sounding with the de capos.

I've also just ordered some "Anti Cable" speakers cables so it will be interesting to see how they add to the mix. I'm thinking it might be cool to have the Wyetech SET gear for low/mid level listening with Diana Krall, Rene Olmstead type stuff and the Pathos for higher level pop/rock. I'll report more finding/opinions as they become apparent.

Sorry for the lengthy diatribe.

Hey Paul, do you still have your Veena's?

 Now I wish that I had the Pathos when I was auditioning the Venna. The extra drive of the Pathos solid state output stage may have worked well (as compared to the Wyetech SET) with the less efficient Veena. I think this would also be an excellent combination as would the Dulcet.

Regards,

David

[panderso]

A most entertaining post, rambles and all. The first and second impressions of the Pathos are very helpful.  No access to one until I next travel to the Toronto area.
By all means update as you spend more time.

I did sell the Veenas.  Perhaps a tactical error, but not irreversible. It is a long story, but to summarize:
I found myself at a fork in the road with Naim electronics and Veena speakers.
Realizing that the synergy was not good, I had to find more suitable speakers for the Naim, or more compatible electronics, probably tube, for the Veenas.

I moved to optimize the Naim route first, and sacrificed the Veenas. In hindsight, I would go the other way.

  Meanwhile, I kept hankering for the Dulcets.  Re-purchased my old pair, now powered by the SimAudio I-5.  A very happy combination, IMHO. Now I may look to tube gear or a hybrid like the Pathos for variety, and reintroduce Veena or de Capo-i after further comparison... Unless some nice used Royal Virtuosos come available.  Even the relatively modest ASL 1001 DT integrated has a magical presence through the Dulcets.

 It is a restless existence...

And yes, Tash is a fine gentleman to consult.

     cheers,
              -paul-

[dspringham]

Thanks Paul,

Keep in touch with me (you can PM if required) as I will most likely be selling the Pathos at some point in the not too distant future.

I think that it's everything the great reviews say it is - definitely has many SET attributes along with the extra power that allows more latitude with regard to speaker choices. Anyone could be very happy with this amp.

As much as I am really enjoying the Pathos I have too much invested in my Wyetech gear and will probably not be able to keep both.
Fully tubed separates are like the Wyetechs are great fun and sonically wonderful however I  appreciate the simplicity of the Pathos design - just a couple of small signal tubes, remote control, reliability of the Mosfet power stage and great sound to boot!

By the way, I had a PrimaLuna Prologue One (35 wpc EL-34's push/pull) when I home auditioned the Dulcets before buying the de Capos. I felt like this highly regarded amp was underpowered with the Dulcets, even though it sounded nice at lower levels. I ended up going with the de Caps because of their easier drive with the PrimaLuna which gave me a little xtra headroom.

As you said "It is a restless existence..."

Ahmen brother!

Regards,

David

[panderso]

dspringham,

           I attempted to pm to discuss further. Enjoyed your added observations as well.
                 -paul-