[woodsyi]

Another thing to remember about the setup of a sub that affects localization is level balancing. Regardless of the xover setting if the levels aren't matched the sub will either be ineffective or call attention to itself.

M&K provides test tones and their LFE4 bass management controller has level controls for making this calibration. I found that in my room with the furniture arrangement there was a 1.5 dB imbalance between Left & Right and about 1.0 dB imbalance with the sub.

It could have been level. 

[DSK]

I could locate my sub running 50 Hz lowpass when it was smack in the middle between the two speakers. ...

That's weird! Is your LP filter only 6db/oct by any chance?
Also, how did you set the gain ...by ear or measured?

[Den]

Since the wavelength is longer than the distance between your ears, you are unable to triangulate on the location of the source. 

Using that theory, anything below 1500hz would be nondirectional 

 Wavelength = speed of sound/frequency

346 meters per second / 80 Hz = 4.325 meters, or approximately 13 feet

Clearly, I have a very big head. 

Apologies for not doing the math or at least googling it before putting theory into George Lucas' mouth.

There is some mojo to the 1500Hz number though.

http://www.aip.org/pt/nov99/locsound.html

Clearly, there is more to it than simple trigonometry.

I still think that 'non-directional bass' is a misnomer at best.  It implies that a single sub can be parked on the far side of a room and not be localized by the listener. 

[woodsyi]

I could locate my sub running 50 Hz lowpass when it was smack in the middle between the two speakers. ...

That's weird! Is your LP filter only 6db/oct by any chance?
Also, how did you set the gain ...by ear or measured?

I used 24db/oct.   I used a ratshack meter but I don't think these are very reliable at 20 hz.  I could have been hearing a psychoacoustic mirage as I was staring right at the sub from my sweet spot looking at the woofers move.  But I located it in other locations too. 

Den,

Too much esoteric information too early in the morning.      I got a big ass diffusor I want to put up on the back wall and would like some help putting it on.  Also we can test the sound before and after.  Are you free anytime this weekend or next week?

[Den]

Den,
Too much esoteric information too early in the morning.      I got a big ass diffusor I want to put up on the back wall and would like some help putting it on.  Also we can test the sound before and after.  Are you free anytime this weekend or next week?

Remember how I had to cancel that 2nd round of squeezeboxing because I wasn´t going to get all the gear before taking a holiday?  I´m still there!      Woohoo!

Waiting to make sure all the 101º / 115 heat index days in DC are done.   

Dig this beautiful weather. . .and this is winter!  I think I'm in love!
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/PEXX0001?from=36hr_topnav_business

Let's do week-after-next.

[woodsyi]

Den,
Too much esoteric information too early in the morning.      I got a big ass diffusor I want to put up on the back wall and would like some help putting it on.  Also we can test the sound before and after.  Are you free anytime this weekend or next week?

Remember how I had to cancel that 2nd round of squeezeboxing because I wasn´t going to get all the gear before taking a holiday?  I´m still there!      Woohoo!
Dig this beautiful weather. . .and this is winter!  I think I'm in love!
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/tenday/PEXX0001?from=36hr_topnav_business
Waiting to make sure all the 101º / 115 heat index days in DC are done.   
Let's do week-after-next.

Very nice, Den.

I was in Cuzco a few years back doing the Inca Trail thing.  Have you had enough pollo, yet?    Go easy on those coco leaves and lava rock.  It sure gave me a buzz.....  Let me know when you are back.

[Bob Reynolds]

I still think that 'non-directional bass' is a misnomer at best.  It implies that a single sub can be parked on the far side of a room and not be localized by the listener. 

Because it's true -- when properly level matched.

[Den]

IME, a single sub on the side wall, say, 10' away from the main speakers is very easy to locate, and I'm not the first listener to think so.
Was the level of every sub always correctly matched?  I dunno.
Was the XO point too high?  I dunno.

I believe that if bass were truly 'non-directional', integrating a single sub would be way more plug-n-play and the requisite tweaking, not just obsessive audiophile tweaking to finesse the sound, but tweaking so it doesn't sound like crap, would not be such an issue with subs.

[Den]

Very nice, Den.

I was in Cuzco a few years back doing the Inca Trail thing.  Have you had enough pollo, yet?    Go easy on those coco leaves and lava rock.  It sure gave me a buzz.....  Let me know when you are back.

Mmm. . .tea. aa

[Bob Reynolds]

IME, a single sub on the side wall, say, 10' away from the main speakers is very easy to locate, and I'm not the first listener to think so.
Was the level of every sub always correctly matched?  I dunno.
Was the XO point too high?  I dunno.

I believe that if bass were truly 'non-directional', integrating a single sub would be way more plug-n-play and the requisite tweaking, not just obsessive audiophile tweaking to finesse the sound, but tweaking so it doesn't sound like crap, would not be such an issue with subs.

I think your experience is pretty typical. It certainly was of my first experience with B&W 601s and a Velodyne sub. It took many years before going into the sub waters again. But with the M&K bass management controller and their sub, there is zero tweaking. You set the levels to THX reference and it's done. I did the calibration once and never touched it again.