[rosconey]

oh the days of my radio shack 100 in 1 electronic kit.
i still have fond memories of the crystal radio-lights and horns.
i wonder if they still make them

[hmen]

I bought one of those kits for my nephew a couple of years ago.

[Carlman]

I'm gonna take a lot of crap for the following statements, but I am going to make them anyway.
  Audiophiles have themselves to blame in many ways. Audiophiles have demanded fancy packaging first and performance a distant second. The war stories that I trade with other manufacturers are echoing that last statement.
  Audiophiles gave up on objective measurements in favor of the golden ears. The golden ears you gave your trust to for the most part have no formal traing in engineering, physics, or music. I ...

This isn't much of a revelation to me.  It echoes earlier posts intimating that people like crap.  A good analogy and proof of this is ebay.  How many times have you sold something really nice and got absolute minimum for it.... and then crap goes for big $$$????  

As to the lack of measurement, I'm all ears!  I wish there were a set of standards for measuring differences.  If there are, I don't know how to do it but, that's one of the reasons I'm here on AC, to learn.  I have great respect for what Dan is doing.  I'd love it if he'd post a 'how-to' on measuring cable and equipment properties to properly match them for optimum results... for free, of course

I think Dan has the same attitude I do that there is no mystery to building a system, anything that can be heard can be measured.  It's not magic.  I also think Dan is actually more bitter than I am about this issue.  So, I leave it to him to suggest a change.  Tell me how and I'll try it.  If I can repeat your results, we have a winner!  The Beldenators were certainly a success but, I don't know why.  What did you measure to know that these cables would work well?  I'd like to know....

*----edited for clarity-----*
My biggest issue with current hifi is that I feel I'm the demographic hifi needs... (DINK, already enthusiastic about audio) why won't it market to me?  The only thing that has come close is my speakers.  The Revel F30's are targeted to me. (Someone who wants to take a big leap into serious hi-fi but, doesn't have 10,k to spend on speakers)  Also, Odyssey amplifiers seems to be doing a good job finding me.  That was the amp I would have bought if I hadn't found AC... and AKSA... and AVA... Now I am happy supporting the companies here.  This takes me back to my point in my first reply to this thread... AC is a step in the right direction for hifi to survive.  AC combines feedback, manufacturers, DIY, and advice all in one place.  The companies that are here have some pressure to produce good products.... otherwise, they'd be immediately laughed away.

Also, as to the comments about dealers being insulting... how do you think they feel?  How many people come into their shop and have no idea what they're talking about yet spew all this crap about what they think they know?  Consider how you come across when you're talking to the salesman.  It's a 2-way street.  Selling hifi sucks much worse than buying it.  Try to find a dealer you can work with, there's tons of them out there.

[JoshK]

For all the laments about high end dying, I see a pretty vibrant marketplace w/internet direct brands and DIY.  In fact, I think DIY is making a comeback and turning hifi in to a true hobby once again.  I think that the B&M based businesses have done it to themselves - to much markup, not enough value, and creating a feel of esoterica around quality equipment, making it intimidating and inaccessable to the person just getting in to the high end.

I agree, but not what I was saying.  I did mention that the direct to consumer was the only area set to prosper.  But this is a slim slice of a small pie.

[Tyson]

I think there will always be people interested in high quality audio, just like there will always be people interested in high end watches or high end cars.  The size of the pie may ebb and flow, but the pie will alway be there.  What I think we're seeing is a "shift" in the buying habits of the audio hobbyist - thanks to the internet, they can get much better deals, much better value, and a very fast feedback loop on how particular products "stack up" against other products of a similar price point.  This of course leads to money NOT being spent at B&M stores, and thus the constant whining we hear from that sector. . .

[Psychicanimal]

Who needs Vodoo stores?

I get my stuff through the internet...the audio forums are doing their job very nicely in the 21 st century.

[wreilly]

Ok , so Krell is Crap ( I was about to buy their new 7.1 ).

What would you recomend as the" best " Pre/Pro?

My system:

Aragon Stage One
Stratos DM powering,
Aerial Acustics LR5 front mains
EAD P 1000 for the rest of the channels
NHT AC-2 center
NHT Sub-1 Subwoofer
NHT 2.9 Rear ( I know, I Know, these will be replaced soon. The do not make good rears. )

IMHO it's a killer system. The 2 channel playback is as good or better than any I have heard to date.

I have thick skin so any and all comments are welcome.

Back to the subject at hand; I agree that prices have gone far to high but what hasn't. Compare Car prices 25 years ago; or most anything you want.
In the end it promotes real competition from companies like Vanalstein, Oddysey, and many of the others on this board.

[avahifi]

The thoughful caring posts in this thread essentially sanction the thoughts and guiding principals I have held to in the forty years I have been involved in this business.  This support is what keeps me going and maintains my interest in trying to achieve a higher plain thru good engineering and making that available at rational prices. There is absolutely nothing that has been said here that I disagree with.

Frank Van Alstine

[DVV]

The thoughful caring posts in this thread essentially sanction the thoughts and guiding principals I have held to in the forty years I have been involved in this business.  This support is what keeps me going and maintains my interest in trying to achieve a higher plain thru good engineering and making that available at rational prices. There is absolutely nothing that has been said here that I disagree with.

Frank Van Alstine

That's good to hear. It is my contention that real audio now lives at the outskirts of the mainstream. Some old companies which never grew too big, so I guess no water in their ears, and small new outfits who have to better than most and cheaper than most to make it.

If I come on too strong on occasion, it's not because I mean harm, rather because I feel a little hurt and sometimes downright insulted by what goes in the mainstream of the audio world today. Mostly marketing, and some audio actually seeps in here and there.

Cheers,
DVV