Why Isn't Thiel Discussed More Here?

audiophile39 · « **on:** 3 Mar 2006, 12:33 pm »

Just wondering why Thiel loudspeakers are not discussed more here. Perhaps they're too mass produced or not esoteric enough, or something else. Your thoughts?

Skynyrd · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 02:41 pm »

Because Audiocircle is cool!
Audiocircle is definitely full of lesser-known equipment manufacturers! Where's B and W? Where's Magnepan? (yeah I know about MUG) How about Legacy? Where's Snell (what did ever happen to Snell?). Indeed, where is Thiel!? There's a homebrew sort of karma here on Audiocircle, and most of the mainline manufacturers don't homebrew. But there's a few big names, just to keep you guessing!

Take Frank Van Alstine. He has a very nice set-up for his electronic creations in his home in Woodbury, MN. Not exactly a factory! And then we get Bryston! Pretty mainstream, keeps me guessing as well.
Highly entertaining equipment (I own some of both) from two rather different manufacturers. Cool to have it together.

Even though postings are watched with a hawk-like vigilance by the system administrators and other cognoscenti (this is a manufacturer's forum and thus is tied to that bane, money), you'll still find Audiocircle to be made up of pretty nice people and posts most of the tiime.

Skynyrd

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 06:04 pm »

Quote from: audiophile39

Just wondering why Thiel loudspeakers are not discussed more here. Perhaps they're too mass produced or not esoteric enough, or something else. Your thoughts?

Perhaps not many people here own Thiels?

Why don't you start a thread about Thiels and see what happens? Who knows, you might get a lot of responses.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 06:07 pm »

My dad has a pair of Thiel S1.6's driven by a Rotel receiver. Thought they sounded very good...not bright or harsh like their reputation would indicate. His set-up is not "audiophile"...placement is WAF-restricted in the living-room with frequent visits from grandchildren...so I've never given them a real critical listen.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 07:51 pm »

Audiocircle has some coverage of mainstream manufacturers (Reference 3a, Bryston, Blue Circle), but you'll find far more proponents of the DIY and direct order manufacturers. I think people here are more into finding the highest value per dollar, but there is certainly a decent amount of hyperbole about certain "gear of the hour" that goes on here, so just be aware. Of course, this happens with any gear that is popular, so it can happen on audiogon/audio asylum as well. I personally have very little interest in gear outside of traditional flat earth stuff (Rega, Linn, Naim, Roksan, Exposure, Dynavector), but I love the NY audio Rave and feel that audiocircle has the best community of any audio website, so I post here a lot, especially in the music and videogame forums.

As far as Thiel is concerned, I've heard probably 4 pairs of their speakers 1.6, CS7, 3.6??, and I think a CS6 or something like that- the names of their speakers leaves something to be desired. Anyway, I think the build quality is excellent on Thiels, but they always left me a bit cold. With the exception of the 1.6, which I think is nicely balanced, I found Thiels a bit too analytical, though will admit they are quite resolving. I could not connect with them at all, though.

Michael

PhilNYC · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 08:09 pm »

Quote from: mcrespo71

Audiocircle has some coverage of mainstream manufacturers (Reference 3a, Bryston, Blue Circle)..

I don't think I'd consider Blue Circle "mainstream"...if you ask Gilbert how big his company is, he'll tell you "we have 4 people...5 if you include my mother"...

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 08:11 pm »

OK, maybe not mainstream like Bryston, but it's not straight mail order, either. I think if you have a dealer network in place, you are more mainstream than some of the other manufacturers here. So VMPS would fall into the same small company with a dealer network as Blue Circle.

Mad DOg · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 09:10 pm »

i've always enjoyed the coherent sound of thiels...

JRace · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Mar 2006, 10:52 pm »

There is just way too many audio manufactures out there to discuss all of them...

Mad DOg · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Mar 2006, 12:12 am »

Quote from: JRace

There is just way too many audio manufactures out there to discuss all of them...

so true

James Romeyn · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Mar 2006, 12:57 am »

I have liked Thiel's in the past but never found them competitive value wise. Have to admit I kind of gave up on them many years ago.

But just for giggles, I heard Rick Craig's (Selah Audio circle here) great little 3-way standmount with paper 7", 2" Morel dome, & some kind of tweeter that escapes me, can't remember the price, maybe in the $1200-$1500 range. They sounded exceptionally musical & pleasing, I could probably be happy with them forever with a sub added maybe.

On the way home I was driving by an audio store, & I ducked in just to hear something, anything in the way of a well known brand, just to compare. I heard Thiel floorstanders, maybe one woofer & a coax mid-treble, around double the price of Rick's. Playing the same material, Rick's were so much more to my liking that, even though nothing terribly wrong with Jim's, I'd not be happy with them long-term, & nowhere near as good as Rick's, which, as I said, were about 1/2 price.

Same results as before...

Oh, & Rick's one of the nicest people you'll ever talk to...

My zero cents.

guitardave · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Mar 2006, 02:36 am »

I love Thiels. I have a pair of 2.3's right now, with a pair of 2's in the video system. I have had Quads, maggies, Harbeth Compact 7's, but I always come back to the Thiels for long term satisfaction. I currently also have a pair of Zu Druids here. The Zu's do some things pretty well, but lack the incisiveness of the Thiels. Where the Zu's excel is volume. People love to group things into little categories because it makes life simple. The category many people put Thiels into is bright, relentless, and analytical. That is far from the case, IMO. They really let the music be the message. Virtually any review written in the last 5 years is a flat out rave.
My toddler daughter threw something and put a dent in the woofer of my 2.3's. I sent it to Thiel at their request, when I specifically just wanted to order a replacement, at my expense(about $245). They replaced it free of charge, and included silver solder for installation.
Great speakers, great company.

meilankev · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Mar 2006, 03:21 am »

I own Thiel CS-3.5 floorstanders, which I bought in 1989. They no longer are a part of my main system (replaced by VMPS RM40s 4 years ago), and now serve in my wife's Karaoke-based system in our Family Room.

Here's a few opinions:

1) Thiel is a wonderful company with excellent customer service. In 200, my daughter took a pencil, and damaged the midrange driver in each speaker. So I'm out of warranty, not to mention the damage all came from my family - there was nothing that Thiel did wrong. Yet, they sent me two replacement drivers (with instructions and solder) at no charge. That's right, I didn't even have to pay for postage.

2) Thiels get labelled as overly accurate and analytical. I can understand some folks taking this stance, and this problem really has no easy (or cheap) solution.

From my experience, Thiels synergize the best with tube amps - and I think this would be particularly true for those listeners who feel they are too clinical. But the problem is that they cannot be driven properly with low-power units. Plus, they are not designed to be biamped.

Which leaves you with only one choice: high-power, high-quality tube amps - which of course aren't cheap. I have always felt this is the biggest problem with Thiels (compared to their competitors). Finding an amp that will wring the ultimate performance out of Vandersteen Model Five speakers is far easier (and far cheaper) than Thiel CS-7.2. Which one is better? I preferred the big Thiels, but only if you got a mega-buck amp to drive them. The Vandersteens, of course, can sound wonderful with any number of reasonably priced amps.

3) Yes, their prices have gone up. My 3.5 speakers cost ~ $2,400, while their replacement speakers (3.6) cost about twice that. So, value is a fluid concept.

Kevin

James Romeyn · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Mar 2006, 03:30 am »

GuitarDave
I'd probably not disagree with anything you posted. IMO big time name brands, with hugely expensive support & marketing expenses, are generally hampered competing directly against some of the small to mid-size brands with circles here. One color advertising page in a major rag is probably in the $25K range.

In cases where a music lover's preference is for a particular sound offered only by one particular brand, & that brand is a big-name national, that music lover will probably end up buying that brand. In that case, any other brand, regardless of any savings, is not preferred, so it's not at the top of his/her list.

I'd probably come under that description. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate Thiel, because I do. But if the last Thiel I heard is still indicative of Thiel's general performance & value, they're not at the top of my list.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Mar 2006, 03:36 am »

My general experience is that Thiel's customer support, especialy out of warratny, based on the above stories, is way way above average for high end brands. I heard stories about British brands like B&W that would make your hair stand on end. Ditto Carl Marchisetto's brand Alon. A tweeter was in the $200+ range if memory serves.

timind · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Mar 2006, 12:01 am »

I had a similar positive customer service experience with Thiel when I was in Lexington Ky. I visited the factory where they handed me the part for free, this was after I told them I purchased the speakers used. Hard to beat that.
Unfortunately, the sound of the 1.5s never did it for me and I sold them. Looking into a used pair of 2.3s now to see if things have changed.