How much power do you REALLY need?

DVV · « **Reply #80 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 06:30 am »

This soft jazz auditioning thing is a world-wide contagion.

I agree that this is used mostly to show off weedy little SET systems, which are incapable of serious peaks anyway, and are all too often paired with insufficiently efficient speakers.

On th last local audio show, I visited a few booths with my Blue Man Group CD.

It was fun! Man, did they run out of steam, or what!

While not a power freak, I do appreciate QUALITY power. In my view, AKSA 100 would be my choice in all except perhaps as an amp for the tweeters alone, in which case the 55 is ideal for the job. But I would invest no small amount in an outstanding power supply.

Cheers,
DVV

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #81 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 09:58 am »

beat :

Quote

It was funny when it became my turn to listen to a disc up at RMAF, within 30 seconds the room cleared almost everytime.

[/list:u]

JLM · « **Reply #82 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 11:57 am »

DVV,

I agree that you need dynamic headroom in any "audiophile" quality amp/speaker system, but I just don't equate hard rock at 110 dB with audiophile, the distortions inherent to that spl is integral to the very reactionary message of rock. And the number of times that live symphonic music reaches above 100 dB is rare IMO. I also agree with others that typical SET/single driver sound is only suitable for limited musical genres. IMO most of the SET crowd has simply dismissed deep bass, but I'd disagree on the matter of not reaching very high spls. Klipschorns with 300B amp (104 dB/w/m plus 9 dB of gain) is loud!

I agree with the most of the opinions expressed here, but like most things not all single driver speakers are created equal. My Bob Brine FTA-2000 single driver speakers don't noticable beam (at least to my 48 year old ears) until I leave my listening chair (no whizzer cone either) and they're rated 30 - 20,000 Hz, 89 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, and 80 watt peaks. Please note that I'm not one to stay tightly locked into a single position. At this rating the peaks in my 13 ft x 21 ft x 8 ft room should exceed 105 dB (nearfield, two channels). These drivers are Fostex F200As ($375 each) and are very smooth, musical, yet detailed. I can't imagine nearfield listening with two/three way speaker. As with any audio design, especially speakers, there are trade offs, so to each their own.

DVV · « **Reply #83 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 01:59 pm »

Quote from: JLM

DVV,

I agree that you need dynamic headroom in any "audiophile" quality amp/speaker system, but I just don't equate hard rock at 110 dB with audiophile, the distortions inherent to that spl is integral to the very reactionary message of rock. And the number of times that live symphonic music reaches above 100 dB is rare IMO. I also agree with others that typical SET/single driver sound is only suitable for limited musical genres. IMO most of the SET crowd has simply dismissed deep bass, but I'd disagr ...

"Loud" is also defined by sound QUALITY, at least subjectively. Hence my mention of an outstanding power supply - I feel 100 wpc is quite sufficient for at least 99% of all home installations, provided those are "real" (i.e. quality) watts and assuming you have speaker efficiency of say 88dB/2.83V/1m or better.

My point is that what in absolute terms is a mid power amp (when compared to 8-10W SETs and Krell/Levinson behemoths of 400+W) can in fact sound far more powerful than its specs have gotten us used to over the years, so much so that it can equal, and even surpass, amps twice its nominal power and usually price as well.

In real life, my experience is that quality 70-80 wpc amps usually do the job quite well. Given that my own speakers are relatively efficient (92 dB for 2.83V at 1 m), and that they are an uncommonly easy load to drive (8W SETs can drive it easily to high levels), the smaller AKSA has no problems with it, none at all.

Cheers,
DVV

rmihai0 · « **Reply #84 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 02:21 pm »

"...the distortions inherent to that spl is integral to the very reactionary message of rock. "

I am afraid that again I have to disagree. Some of the best recordings in audio industry were made in the last 80's on VINYL. Try to find a studio recording of Iron Maiden, Rainbow, Whitesnack and you will see that those are REFERENCE recordings.

Why VINYL? This is entirelly a story by itself - if you will listen rock recorded on CD's that will sound at least odd - I have to agree on that. But that is why I am always saying - you want to test speakers and electronics? Do it using LP's NOT CD's. Give your equipment a chance to shine - or maybe you will realize that is just garbage.

Vinyl and good tape recordings are the only ones (commerically available) to provide the required dynamics to test equipment. CD's are for young kids not for serious listeners.

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #85 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 04:19 pm »

Just a comment about single driver speakers and the kind of music they're made for. I generally agree that they are dismissive of bass, but there are exceptions. And if you listen mostly to Rock, like myself, you're lucky because 99.9% of it doesn't reach below 40hz (I believe I read somewhere that the lowest tone on an electric bass guitar was something like 41.5hz). We'll my Zu Druid Blacks actually prefer rock n roll; they want to be push and thrashed around because they're up to it. On the other hand they're a little reticent with chamber music. They hate smooth jazz, and for that reason alone I love them, as you should as well.

beat · « **Reply #86 on:** 24 Mar 2005, 09:30 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42

beat :
Quote
It was funny when it became my turn to listen to a disc up at RMAF, within 30 seconds the room cleared almost everytime.
[/list:u]
What tunes were you playing ??? Thanks ! [/list:u]

Lonewolf,
I cant remember all I took up there but definitely White stripes- elephant, the Clash, Radiohead..White strips was usually the one that did it.

Tbadder,
I would love to hear those things..I have had my eye on them for a while. I am totally not opposed to the idea of crossoverless speakers, I just havent been floored like some of the guys I saw up at the show were. There were some guys standing around listening to these little 4-5" FR going on about how great they were...I don't get it...the Zus I think I would. I think they would pair nicely with my 25w SE monoblocks which drive my 90-92db 4 ways just fine. Darn fine actually, but they don't punch like 125w of SS when blasting Radiohead, Metallica, or some..well you get the idea

rmihai0 · « **Reply #87 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 02:56 pm »

Quote from: DVV

This must be the top audio topic regarding amps.

But I have never yet seen any serious conclusion reached. Ask as many people to get as many answers.

With my speakers (92 dB/2,83V/1m) and in my room (app. 132 sq.ft), I hardly ever use more than 4-5 watts in peaks under normal listening conditions. When I want loud, I peak out at around 35W for some mean bass notes.

Is 50W/side enough then?

Cheers,
DVV

Doing some in deep research and measurements in this field, I came up with this results:
- if you keep you speakers 1ft or more away from the wall then you will need 66W RMS
- if you keep your speakers close to the wall, by gaining sonic reinforcement, you will need just 33W RMS.

I made the assumption that your listening position is aprox 10ft away from the speakers.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #88 on:** 31 Dec 2005, 09:57 pm »

rmihai0, I think your assumption is mostly correct but only for frequencies below about 150Hz. Higher frequencies with shorter wavelengths will not
show a gain due to boundry reinforcement.
Scotty