Buying modified products vs. expensive stock units- PART 1

avahifi · « **Reply #20 on:** 3 Jul 2004, 10:29 am »

I appreciate very much the way you took my post as I intended. Your response gives me confidence that you are doing your best for your clients. Thanks for the thoughful response.

Frank Van Alstine

Bill Baker · « **Reply #21 on:** 3 Jul 2004, 01:16 pm »

Thank you Frank. Have a happy 4th of July Holiday.

doug s. · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Jul 2004, 04:22 am »

Quote from: Response Audio

....Quote: ...hefty gear that has a fairly high damage rate with the Gorillas at UPS and FedEx...

...I lost 4 very expensive amps in a 16 day period. I have yet to see any responsibility taken from USP and it was clearly a case of Gorilla Abuse...

hi bill, i cannot speak for the situation about your amps, but my experience has been that EVERY SINGLE TIME i have had damaged goods, it was due to poor packing. gear must be packed to ASSUME gorillas will be handling it.

i recently purchased from you some vintage used mcintosh gear that you took in trade - an mc28 preamp & an mr-77 tuna. the gear was packed so close to the outside of the cartons, w/so little insulation, i was surprised as hell that there was *not* any damage when i pulled the gear outta the cartons. the gorilla gods were certainly watching over us that time!

this type of gear needs *at least* 4" of clearance from the gear to the box, with lotsa insulation. double-boxing, w/the same clearance between the inside box & the outside box is even better...

i think if you pack stuff better, you wouldn't have many (any?) issues w/shipping damage for demo gear. and, then you certainly wouldn't have any issues w/ups taking responsibility for the damage.

regards,

doug s.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #23 on:** 4 Jul 2004, 04:36 am »

Quote

i think if you pack stuff better, you wouldn't have many (any?) issues w/shipping damage for demo gear. and, then you certainly wouldn't have any issues w/ups taking responsibility for the damage

HI Doug, The Mac stuff was an exception and I do apologize for the less than perfect packaging. The products I have had damaged recently was actually double boxed with styrofoam and peanuts within each box and was the manufacturers original packaging. They were in route to me, not products I sent out. Granted, two of these amps were 70 pound units but aside from crating, it is difficult to package and I have no control on what manufacturers use.

doug s. · « **Reply #24 on:** 4 Jul 2004, 04:48 am »

thanks, bill for the comments. i had no way of knowing what was up, but due to my experience, i couldn't help but wonder...

re: 70lb amps, i think crating is certainly in order; my only experience w/that type of gear is my mesa baron amp, which, while not crated, did have plywood top-n-bottoms in the box, & the whole thing was packed in that sprayed foam-to-fit stuff... this type of gear needs this type of packing, imo. mfr's should *certainly* know better... my experience w/peanuts has been that, unless the stuff is packed *really* tightly, the gear will move around in the box - not at all a good thing.

regards,

doug s.

skrivis · « **Reply #25 on:** 6 Nov 2005, 10:20 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Chris,

When I buy something I absolutely think about what I can resell it for. I have learned that in this hobby I can't be sure how anything will perform I

I don't buy things with resale in mind. I buy things I will want over the long haul.

I have a pair of speakers where I built the cabs in '86 and I have periodically replaced the drivers over time.

The same goes for a Hafler DH-220 I built as a kit in the early '80s. The sheet metal and x-former are the same, but the circuits have been replaced a couple of times.

To me, buying something with resale in mind means you really didn't want it in the first place.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #26 on:** 7 Nov 2005, 12:09 am »

Quote

To me, buying something with resale in mind means you really didn't want it in the first place

Well said but you have to consider another line of thinking. With the world of the internet, a whole new world of options are opened up. Nobody has the resources to audition all options of interest so they figure they can just buy it and sell it off if they don't like it.
This is why A-Gon has so many products listed on a daily basis. For myself, I feel if someone does their homework (and doesn't count on Stereophile reviews), you can narrow your options down to a point where you can purchse a product "unseen" and be happy with it.
Then there will always be ones who are never happy with their gear.
We all have personal preferences and different levels dispossable income.

My customers seem to have your line of thinking. Buy once, buy right and just enjoy the music.

zybar · « **Reply #27 on:** 7 Nov 2005, 12:33 am »

Quote from: Response Audio

Well said but you have to consider another line of thinking. With the world of the internet, a whole new world of options are opened up. Nobody has the resources to audition all options of interest so they figure they can just buy it and sell it off if they don't like it.
This is why A-Gon has so many products listed on a daily basis. For myself, I feel if someone does their homework (and doesn't count on Stereophile reviews), you can narrow your options down to a point where you can purchse a product "un ...

Exactly what I was going to say Bill. I would also add that some categories right now lend themselves to changing and not holding on to gear long term (such as digital sources).

In general, when I buy something it falls into two categories:

1. It is the best piece of gear for my system that I could afford and it is based on an actual audition.

2. It is a piece of gear that I want to try in my system and the only way is to buy it at a good price.

As always we are all different and each person should do whatever they want and the rest of us shouldn't be too judgemental about it.

George

Bill Baker · « **Reply #28 on:** 7 Nov 2005, 12:40 am »

Quote

As always we are all different and each person should do whatever they want and the rest of us shouldn't be too judgemental about it.

BRAVO!!! I have a quote that use to appear on all my emails and my signature here on teh Circle and the Asylum.

"Build your system for yourself, not the critics"

We need to stop trying to chance other's opinions. As a dealer, I have learned to understand and appreciate the opinions and preferences of my customers. A dealer is there to catter to it's customers, not the otherway around.

Rocket · « **Reply #29 on:** 7 Nov 2005, 10:48 am »

Hi Bill,

"Build your system for yourself, not the critics"

I wish i had read the above quote prior to selling an amplifier that i was relatively happy with in my system (a few audiophile friends bagged the amp). It took me another 3 amplifiers to find one that was better but also cost me a Lot of money in the process. One of the amps i tried was a class a stereophile product

.

Great thread.

Regards

Rod

Bill Baker · « **Reply #30 on:** 1 Dec 2005, 09:18 pm »

Quote

"Build your system for yourself, not the critics"

I wish i had read the above quote prior to selling an amplifier that i was relatively happy with.......

I hear this quite a bit. I try to tell people not to let others influence them to a point where they are getting away from what they like. Opinions are just that, opinions. It doesn't matter if they are coming from your buddy across the street or a highly regard reviewer. Only you kow what you like.

Rocket · « **Reply #31 on:** 2 Dec 2005, 01:03 am »

Hi Bill,

My ps audio hca - 2 amplifier is certainly getting a lot of frequent flyer points at the moment. It only returned last monday from the states and one of the components came loose during shipping.

I've removed the board and sent it off to a friend in texas (who extensively modified the amp for me) who is going to repair it and do some further mods for me. My friend certainly did a very good modification for me as in its stock form the amp was very unfriendly

and wasn't a keeper at all.

I've had 2 components in my system modified one by modwright (pt p3a) and my friend in the states. Both components are vastly improved after modification but shipping is a killer for me.

Best wishes

Rod

Bill Baker · « **Reply #32 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 01:10 am »

Hi Rod,
I think you are one of the lucky one when it comes to have a product that didn't even start out as a keeper. Usually, mods will not turn a product into something that it is not.
I usually recommend other consideration if a person is not happy with the product to start with. My feeling are that mods are designed to bring out more potential from a product that someone already enjoys and only wants to bring out more.

I know how you feel in regard to shipping. I have modified and sold products from across the seas. I had a streak of products go to Australia for a while there when I introduced 220v versions and do quite a bit in Hawaii. (no customs just expensive shipping).

I still beleive that many affordable products offer a lot of potential and well thought out upgrades can be justified. I have been doing this for 10 years now and feel very comfortable about my work while still being able to sleep at night. In the end, it is the customer feedback and repeat customers that tell me what my future path has in store for me.

JoshK · « **Reply #33 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 01:19 am »

Wow, didn't realize you've been in the biz for 10yrs. Congrats to you for the success!

Bill Baker · « **Reply #34 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 01:26 am »

Thanks Josh,
It was easy as I love my work and the people I have developed relationships with over the years.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #35 on:** 13 Dec 2005, 01:44 am »

In the beginning of this thread (Page 1), there was mention of having demo units available for audtion. I think this is a good idea for some products.

In my lineup, the Signature and Reference 3205 amplifiers have been my most popular sellers for a few years now. For this reason, I will be building one of each as a travel piece. I will start with the Signature as it already has a few stops scheduled on it's trip. Following that will be the Reference 3205.

Most likely, I will not be doing this with the EXtreme Hurricanes. I am not fond of the idea of a 150 lb. $10k+ set of mono blocs floating around. There is just too much invested in these. Besides, I haven't even had time to build myself a pair yet.

The Bella SP/AV-1 speakers may also be joing this traveling club. They will not be a production finish pair (why bother) but rather a pair using one of our original prototype cabinets. They are up to production standard other than having a quality finish.

I will also not do this with the popular Custom Jolida JD100 CD player. Not because I don't want to rather because we all know how well digital gear handles a lot of traveling. I don't think we would get more than 2 or 3 stops before it enters the carrier death zone.