How do YOU define musicality?

massappeal85 · « **on:** 29 Apr 2003, 04:36 pm »

I'm interested in what all of you think about the term 'musicality' that is used in reviews for some equipment, like "so and so's product is more musical then X's product". I've heard this term used many times, and I'm curious what it means, or what you believe it to mean.

Could this also be a different word for 'emotion'?

Curt · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 07:23 pm »

Hi massappeal85,

A system that lets you forget your listening to reproduced music at home and gets your foot tapping to the tunes (the music seems almost live) is much more “musical” than a system that may not reproduce the true rhythm and pace of the tunes loosing the magic (music is dull and lifeless) which can quickly become boring.

If it’s “musical” it stirs your emotions. If it’s not musical, it can put you to sleep.

However, I get emotional in a different way if I put out big bucks for a system and it produces dull lifeless music

I'm from Buffalo too. I lived in South Buffalo, then E. Amherst by Sweethome Road. What part are you from?

massappeal85 · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 10:11 pm »

Oh, hey!

I live on Harlem Rd. just a couple houses down from the corner of Main in Snyder. I'm in highschool at Amherst Central, so I actually don't get down to Buffalo as much as I'd like. Occasionaly me and some friends'll take a subway down for the hell of it, and I'd like to start checkin out some of the live shows they got around here.

Heh, you miss our pizza and wings at all?

"A system that lets you forget your listening to reproduced music at home and gets your foot tapping to the tunes (the music seems almost live) is much more “musical” than a system that may not reproduce the true rhythm and pace of the tunes loosing the magic (music is dull and lifeless) which can quickly become boring."

Thats what I thought and hoped it meant.

Thanks, and good talkin'!

Curt · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 07:53 am »

Quote from: massappeal85

Heh, you miss our pizza and wings at all?

I drove Harlem Rd many times, from Seneca St in West Seneca to Main St in Williamsville when I was going to ECC. Sometimes I just liked to drive the long way and think. Brings back lots of memories.

I really miss the food. The pizza in Buffalo is some of the best in the world. I started eating wings at the Anchor Bar where they were invented, while listening to live jazz... very nice. Yes, I miss the pizza and wings!

Nice talking, see you around. Enjoy the music.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 10:47 am »

Quote from: Curt

Hi massappeal85,

A system that lets you forget your[sic] listening to reproduced music at home and gets your foot tapping to the tunes (the music seems almost live) is much more “musical” than a system that may not reproduce the true rhythm and pace of the tunes loosing [sic] the magic (music is dull and lifeless) which can quickly become boring.

In my mind, based on reading a number of reviews using the term, the opposite of "musical" isn't necessarily dull & lifeless (boring); it may well be overly-analytical and revealing of details. In that case, listening to the stereo may be overly-intense rather than boring--kinda like wearing magnifying eyeglasses ALL THE TIME and getting a headache from the intensity.

Curt · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 11:32 am »

Quote from: Tonto Yoder

In my mind, based on reading a number of reviews using the term, the opposite of "musical" isn't necessarily dull & lifeless (boring); it may well be overly-analytical and revealing of details. In that case, listening to the stereo may be overly-intense rather than boring--kinda like wearing magnifying eyeglasses ALL THE TIME and getting a headache from the intensity.

I normally associate the musical "spec" only with pace and rhythm. Some loudspeakers do not control the drivers well enough (acurately and speed) to make the music seem real.

The voicing of a loudspeaker seems to be a different subjective spec (for me), described in terms like: warm; lush; thick; neutral; thin; harsh, grainy; brite; analytical...

It would really be nice to have a standard subjective "SPEC Sheet" for everyone's reference, our audio dictionary

JoshK · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 02:13 pm »

All I will say is I don't define "musicality" as I freaking hate that word, if it is in fact a word! Something is or is not musical, imo, not has musicality. That just seems like hick audiophile terminology to me.

JohnR · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 02:40 pm »

I've long wondered why they were called Buffalo Wings...

"Musical" = "sounds more like music"

In other words, it transcends more mundane descriptions such as frequency response and distortion specs, not to mention various other audiophile cliches. It's also quite the cliche itself, perhaps undeservedly so, since after all if a system is not "musical" then it's not worth listening to, is it, regardless of whether it can be dissected into various other adjectives like soundstage and smoothness blah de blah and score high marks in all those regardless. Despite that, the term "musical" is also used to describe components that forcibly impose their own signature, and which in my own experience I would prefer to describe with a term such as "syrupy" -- hence my suspicion of the term, and I recommend avoiding it if possible. This does leave one in the embarassing situation of being unable to describe a truly good component on the rare occasion one actually finds one; as an alternative, I suggest some more honest from-the-heart phrasing as "cor blimey it's bloody awright eh?!," "WAH I can't stop blubbering fook me if that ain't the choirs of heaven right there," and the like.

Cheers

Val · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 02:41 pm »

Plato said that definition shouldn't work by examples, but let me tell you about one experience I have mentioned before. I have owned many speakers at very different price points, and at the time I lived in an apartment with a good system based on B&W Matrix 805s, one of the most accurate speakers I ever had, paired with Bag End SWs. I was happy with it, my living room being very good acoustically. One day I was at a dealer friend's home, where a pair of M805s were playing, the sound being very familiar to me. He switched to a fairly new pair of smaller and cheaper Epos 12s. I instantly knew they were more musical than the B&Ws in the way they drew me into the music that I forgot speaker, price, quality, everything. Suddenly my friend's wife, from the kitchen, said the same thing in a loud voice. My friend looked at me and smiled, we both understood. Ending with philosophy again, St. Augustine once said: I know what time is until you ask me to define it.

Val

Carlman · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:04 pm »

I too, wish there was some sort of definition of audio adjectives for reviewers. I think I know what someone means most of the time. I try to get into the mood of the reviewer and understand the emotional and analytical reaction to what he heard.

However, definining musicality barely compares to the myriad adjectives used for wine-tasting, cigars, and whiskey (scotch) I've heard. It's a different language and very often people are too embarrased to say that they don't know what the hell anyone's talking about.

'Musicality' is a word I've use when I run out of other positive things to say. It's like a made-up word to define a certain 'je ne sais pas' that I can't put my finger on... but, the music shines through. It'd make a great wine-tasting word somehow.

Other words will inevitably be introduced to reviewing audio... I could make up a few right now....
Craptacular - Sounds great in a trashy way
Wonky - too much resonance
Synergonomics - Works well together and is comfortable for listening for long periods of time
Groove-o-licious - do you have to ask?
Chunky - phat bass slam
Encirculation - air but, in a round way
Auracity - same as above

etc.....

JoshK · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:22 pm »

OK, I am not too embarassed to say that I have no fooking clue what 'je ne sais pas' means.

JohnR · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:24 pm »

Heh, I laughed

How about "je ne sais quoi," any better?

Carlman · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:32 pm »

I could say I was using my misspelling of the French cliche to further empasize my point but... the reality is, my French is not so good.

Glad to create a laugh, though!

JoshK · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:44 pm »

Quote from: JohnR

Heh, I laughed

How about "je ne sais quoi," any better?

Nope! I don't speak french. No clue what that means, never heard it before.

JohnR · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:54 pm »

OK, "je ne sais pas" = "I don't know"

"je ne sais quoi" = "I don't know what"

The latter is a phrase that has more meaning than just the words, in English you would say "an indescribable something" or "words escape me" or something to that effect.

Anyway you see the humor in saying "I don't know what 'je ne sais pas' means"

Personally, I think English speakers should stick to English. The raison d'etre of English is for English speakers to speak it, after all...

Carlman · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:55 pm »

Here's a good explanation:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/99/J0029900.html

Geez, don't make a mistake on THIS board...

Quote from: JohnR

Personally, I think English speakers should stick to English. The raison d'etre of English is for English speakers to speak it, after all...