[_scotty_]

What Scott has proposed is not that hard to do.  Amplifiers can and do ring, oscillate or exhibit overshoot when driving many speakers and speaker cable combinations.
A simple way to change the sound of your system is to buy two pairs of Pomona
double banana  plugs and put an RC network across the plug consisting of .15mfd polypropylene cap in series with an 10 to 12 ohm 1watt metal oxide resistor,these are good starting points for an 8ohm loudspeaker.
    http://www.elexp.com/clp_3mdp.htm
 The plug is inserted into the back of the speakers binding posts. This RC damper network will reduce the ringing and the cap value can be reduced or increased to vary the effect on HF response. This is sort of like having an adjustable speaker cable.
I have a question for Frank. How high was the frequency of the square waves used for observing the effect on the high frequency linearity of the components.
Scotty

[JohnR]

Basic cable characteristics are length (too short is bung),

Frank, there is such thing as a too-short cable? Why? I thought the shorter the better.

(Forgive me if I misinterpret, I'm not familiar with "bung" and am assuming it's not good... )

[woodsyi]

Basic cable characteristics are length (too short is bung),

Frank, there is such thing as a too-short cable? Why? I thought the shorter the better.

(Forgive me if I misinterpret, I'm not familiar with "bung" and am assuming it's not good... )

John,

This is for you.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=bung

You decide what Frank meant!

[ctviggen]

I often wonder how people test cables.  One time I changed phase, added new power cords, changed speaker cables, and changed connections between low and mid/highs on my RM40s.  The result?  I could barely tell a difference -- if there was a difference.  Moreover, my memory isn't that good. Because of the time it takes me to modify my system, several hours or days would elapse; how could I possibly remember what things sounded like a day ago?  I've done multiple tests with DACs, and it's hard to compare them when you can immediately switch back and forth between DACs, let alone have several hours between comparisons.  I've had to replay the same section of song many times over in order to compare DACs, but you can't do this when comparing cables unless you have two of the same pieces of equipment.

[Steve]

"In summation, nothing in audio exists until ScottMayo endorses it."

Notice he continues his personal attacks and insults on those who dissagree with him.

Kinda reminds me of what BFS, #154, says in the article "truth be told".

"Roving cliques go from board to board like wild thugs stomping on diverse opinions like empty cans under heavy boots, as knowledgeable old timers and veterans look on and laugh.".....

(But why would they do that?)

"On some of the message boards there are known instances of audio manufacturers and dealers (even chat sites?) having infiltrators (shills) post as sincere consumers in an effort to undermine the popularity of competitors products while subtly propping their own."

Notice chairguy how he has changed his tatics from the string on fuses.

First, Fuses, cables, and power cords don't make a sonic difference, and now they change the sound because high end amps are somehow more unstable and reactive.    

 By the way, I have done a number of tests, including 3 different terminated and 2 different connecter ICs of my own, with the same CLR, and the sound changed so much that I had to change speaker Xover parts. And the 11A has a different design than the 10A because the cryod tube sounded that much different.

Let's see how scott continues to tap dance.

[avahifi]

>>> Scott care to elaborate on what
"are running esoteric gear that runs nearer the edge of stability."
and  "running much more delicate gear with a lot more reactiviy." <<<

I thought my example of the Cobra Cable and Threshold fiasco was adequete elaboration for anyone.  Geeze.

"Too short is bung"  simple, if they don't reach from A to B they don't work unless you have a cable stretcher.

Frank Van Alstine

[ScottMayo]

"On some of the message boards there are known instances of audio manufacturers and dealers (even chat sites?) having infiltrators (shills) post as sincere consumers in an effort to undermine the popularity of competitors products while subtly propping their own."

I'm not certain, but it sounds like here that you're accusing me of acting at the behest of some manufacturer, in an attempt to discredit some other manufacturer's products.

Is that what you're saying? Yes or no will do.

[_scotty_]

Scott Mayo,I think "they" are accusing you of acting in your own self interest when it comes to the content of your posts and their "authoritative" nature.
You are a VENDOR and the appearance of bias is unavoidable. You are not just another one of the boys posting here. As such your latitude regarding how frequently you post and the content of your posts is more limited than someone who is not a vendor.
Some may see it as an attempt to appear knowledgable about all things audio especially with the objective measurement biased viewpoint your posts have. This would serve to bolster your credibility with a potential customer if you were asked your opinion about any of the products you might be selling.
  I think you are entitled to your Opinion.  Judging from the reaction of other people who have posted to threads you commented in I think the consensus here is that you are not an online authority of any particular noteworthiness.
I have no problem with your posting or it's content. I consider the context from which you speak and the nature of the components in your system when I read your posts.  Your conclusions and the worldview you express
are completely consistent with your experiences in the audio hobby so far.
Scotty

[JohnR]

"Too short is bung"  simple, if they don't reach from A to B they don't work unless you have a cable stretcher.

Ahh!! I completely misunderstood! Well hopefully no-one will argue with that authoritative statement, or take it personally etc

[ScottMayo]

I think "they" are accusing you of acting in your own self interest when it comes to the content of your posts and their "authoritative" nature.

I think *they*, and in this case I mean Steve, should explain what the sentence

"On some of the message boards there are known instances of audio manufacturers and dealers (even chat sites?) having infiltrators (shills) post as sincere consumers in an effort to undermine the popularity of competitors products while subtly propping their own."

was doing in a post referring to me.

If people want to consider me an arrogant blowhard or otherwise opinionated, that's fine with me. The facts may bear this out. But if people want to claim I'm enagaged in deceitful practices, shilling for unnamed manufacturers under the guise of personal opinion, then they can be up front about it - or, if they have the sense to check with a lawyer on the definition of libel, perhaps they will also have the sense never to even hint at such an accusation again.

For the record, I resell speakers. No other gear. I carefully stay out of discussions about speakers, to avoid the appearance of bias. On any other gear, though, my opinion is my own, right or wrong, and I air it as I choose, authorative, arrogant, accurate or otherwise. And I am nobody's shill.

[TheChairGuy]

I'm not certain, but it sounds like here that you're accusing me of acting at the behest of some manufacturer, in an attempt to discredit some other manufacturer's products.

Is that what you're saying? Yes or no will do.

Yes or no makes it far too easy for you to deflect direct criticism on this ....how about 'probably' or 'pretty nearly that'...and we'll wait a little longer to see how the rest of the story for Obsession Audio and Scott Mayo unfolds.

You speak about a range of audio issues with far less authority than you believe; or would have us believe.  Your clearly a learned man, so if your intelligence is not suspect....then your motives truly are.

I care not that you chose to be a purveyor of audio products for some extra coinage; in fact, I say more power to ya'!  I am simply not fond that you parade about Audio Circle as something somewhat else.  You 'save' all of us non-technical folks from very little, yet subject us to your considerable bias in healthy doses every day.  

Apparently, some others clearly agree  

[WEEZ]

Getting back to the original question.....  I would vote for cables from the same maker or type.. and that they be as neutral as possible.

My reason for having this opinion is that as we audiophiles strive for better music reproduction at home- most realize that equipment that is more neutral in sonic character tends to be the most satisfying on the vast majority of recorded material in the long run. So a cable that colors the sound is self defeating, IMHO. (feel free to disagree    )...

I have not compared zillions of cables- not enough time or money to do so. But I've compared Kimber with Cardas, for example (because they are available most anywhere; and because they both publish their specs).

The Kimber Hero costs about $150/meter. The Cardas Microtwin costs about $140/meter. The Kimber has roughly half the capacitance of the Cardas. I compared a one meter length of each from my CD player to my CD input. As stated in one of the posts above- it's difficult to hear a major difference when switching back and forth (even with the same music).

However; after listening to several CD's for a longer length of time and just trying to enjoy the music, I can say that I had a preference- and it was the Cardas wire. Most will say that Cardas has a reputation for being 'warm' sounding. And compared to the Kimber- that was my experience as well. (Hey folks, it was subtle)

But after several days, I began to realize that the Cardas wires actually made instruments sound more real and I began to question whether it was really 'warmth'; or did the Kimber 'hype' the sound a little? Hell if I know. Maybe the Cardas wires are more neutral.    IMHO, I think they are.

Now if I had only heard the Kimbers without ever hearing the Cardas- would I have been happy?- yes, for sure. Am I glad I made the comparison?- yes. Was the difference night and day? no.

The slightly higher capacitance of the Cardas wires shouldn't be a problem if you only need one meter (approx 150 pf) I wouldn't think. Maybe if you need longer lengths it might be..don't know....

After all that- speaker wire makes a larger difference in sound to my ears-
but it is still far more subtle than an improvement in equipment.

I vote for good shielding and termination quality- and neutrality.

That's my story, and I'm sticken' to it    

WEEZ

[ScottMayo]

Yes or no makes it far too easy for you to deflect direct criticism on this ....how about 'probably' or 'pretty nearly that'

So I'm pretty nearly a manufacturer's shill?

I was raised to either say nothing about a person, or to make definitive statements, and then take any consequences. Put differently, if I'm going to be ad hominem, I'm at least going to be definitively ad hominem.

Let me know if and when you get to that point. I have zero use for badly attempted libel by 'probably' and 'nearly' - it's not quite grown up sounding.

[Steve]

Scott,

 First off, you have no lawsuit, so stop puffing and playing games.

<<"and I air it as I choose, authorative, arrogant, accurate or otherwise.">>

Fine, we try not too, but you make it awefully difficult. So don't complain when occasionally it comes back at you.

You claim you have all this knowledge and we are all airheads, aliens, hardheads. Let's take a refresher. (maybe I have a lawsuit here   )

You have a software engineering degree, and work with software for missles? Sounds elite.....
 
"Software engineering is the profession  that creates and maintains software applications  by applying technologies and practices from computer science, project management , engineering application domains, and other fields."

But your degree has nothing to do with audo engineering. Audio is your hobby, nothing more.

Your software "missle" job doesn't mean diddley (except for clearance), anymore than a private sector job. I know because I worked testing military communications components at a private company for a time.

You can only recite one article, which uses first/second year electronics engineering, and who won't run their own test.

(So basically, a sophomore college engineering student could write the article you cite.)

Next, you post repeatedly that line cords, fuses, and cables don't make any sonic difference, (read the "fuse" string.) All the while insulting, intimidating others, and trying to discredit us.

Now he changes his story and the above may make a sonic difference cause some high end components are unstable and reactive.

You throw out terms like stability and reactive to sound credibly, but you can't even define them for Frank.
All show but no substance.

We have continually asked questions. In all cases, you refused to reply, indicating that you know nothing about the subject, which you claim to have. But yet, you claim we are the hardheads. Pretty amazing.

Your actions make us very suspicous of your motives. I mean why put on a charade unless there is an agenda or.....??

There is more, but not worth pursuing.



By the way here is a small list I compiled of the common traits that scam artists/shills seem to have in common. This list was compiled over several years of watching at various other chat sites. This list is probably not complete.

1) When shown to be wrong, a scammer will attack one, or one's website. Misquoting information on a site is a favorite. Another is your reviews on your website really aren't that good.

2) Another form of attack is that a scammer will put words into your mouth. And the "translation" is always to make you look bad.

3) A scammer will constantly insult/minipulate whenever possible, trying to intimidate and take control. It is a phychological ploy. I have seen this on several sites.

4) NO information will ever be provided by the scammers, no matter how many times one asks. The scammer wants things as simple as possible, less chance for arguments and losing control.

4) At the conclusiong of a discussion, a scammer will mislead about what actually happened in the discussion. Always summarize with the scammer looking great (even if he takes a beating), and try to make the other party(s) look bad. It is misleading, and lying of course.

5) A scammer, while appearing authoritative, usually has no educational backround in audio.

5) One can tell a scammer by what he subtley attacks and/or what he promotes. It can be either specific or general. For instance he could scam for a particular company in particular. Or he can scam to push for a certain type of tube, vs brand of tube, like directly headed triode vs indirectly heated triode.

[TheChairGuy]

....how about 'probably' or 'pretty nearly that'...and we'll wait a little longer to see how the rest of the story for Obsession Audio and Scott Mayo unfolds

Scott,

I wasn't around to know how you were raised, and besides, nurture is responsible for only a part of who we are as adults.  Your true nature, and motives, seems to be in as much question.  Beyond that, or as part of it, you clog Audio Circle with your (often innacurate) bias daily. Being wrong is fine incidentally, but you seem to believe you are always less wrong, and oh-so-much more correct, than most everybody else around here.

Time has a wonderful way of sorting out things....I'll wait for the rest of the Obsession Audio story to unfold.

And, I think WEEZ and many would agree, back to our original topic - cables, and how us audiophools spend far too much time and expense dwelling on them    

More power to ya' all  

[warnerwh]

After being fortunate enough to experiment with cables costing hundreds per pair I've come to the conclusion I should spend the money elsewhere.  A friend loaned me sets of Kimber KCAG, Cardas, Straight Wire and Audioquest at the same time to try for a couple of months.  The only cable that made an audible difference had been the Cardas.  Worth paying for though is another question.  
 
Right now I'm very pleased with the quality and design of Canare cables.  Their 4S11 speaker cable I think I paid 63 cents a foot for great deal.  I'd rather spend a little more on a better cd player or dac and get an improvement I can hear.  Spending money toward your room should be done before any significant money is spent on wire imo.  The improvements are obvious with room treatments and can even be heard by non audiophiles.

[Steve]

Nice post Warnerwh. One can always mess with tweeks later IF one decides too.