T7ECR-First and second impressions.........

dave1010 · « **on:** 16 Sep 2005, 01:28 am »

:roll:First I want to thank all the people for their posts, I have learned a lot... I just purchased a used T7SLR on E-Bay. At the time there were two on sale, one was the ECR I have heard so much about from Mr. Cutthroat Trout. I do not want a phono section, so I was very fortunate to purchase this pre-amp for $540.00. I sold my Audible Illusions MOdulus 1 and my Threshold FET-2. The AI was great for vocalists, and little else. The FET-2 was a good pre-amp. I had it fitted with Black Gate's, and it sounded nice, but it seemed that neither played everything well. I listen to a wide range of music, and it is difficult to change pre's for each cd... My first impression of the T7 was that it sounded ok, but I was not stunned by the sound (or lack of it). I put Mullard 12AT7/4204 tubes when I first received the pre-amp, and they had very little bass. So I put in the original tubes and WOW! What a nice pre-amp! Hard to describe, but it sounds very neutral with a generous helping of deep bass and nice airy highs. But I was getting a bit of congestion in the mids, and the sound was a bit forward. I will mention my equipment at the end of this review, and you will see why... Then I spotted my Blue Circle BC86 powerline conditioner that I had put away years ago. When I hooked it up to the wall outlet, the congestion was gone! I was surprised, I had put it away because it seemed to limit the sparkle in the high end of my monitors, and I had given my other one away to a friend. For some reason it payed off in spades, and I am glad I kept it. Synergy in every system is so different, and my system sounds so much nicer now! Even the headphone amp was a revelation, my old Sennheiser 525 headphones sound stunning, and here I thought they were mediocre headphones! I am now a Van Alstine fan, and while I do not agree with everything Mr. Van Alstine says, I have to say that I feel like this pre-amp has really helped with the soundstage, especially the placement of instruments, all the hours of reading reviews has paid off. The sound is very balanced, it no longer has the forward sound of old. Once I receive my Telefunken 12AT7/ECC801S tubes-On E-bay for 75 bucks a pair, I will update. Nos tubes have never worked for me, so I am skeptical about how they will sound. Now my system-BAT VK-D5 cd player-Forte 6 amp-re-biased into a 200 watt Class A with 4 Conrad Dublier 31,000uf? Capacitors by Jon
Soderberg (ex Threshold employee). DH labs BL-1 with Q-10 speaker cable-Paradigm 100V2 speakers, cheap audioquest power cords- p.s. audio port-Vibrapods under everything including speakers-In fact sitting on Vibrapods can also help the sound....just kidding![[/quote]

WEEZ · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Sep 2005, 11:12 am »

Are the original tubes JJ's?

(By the way, thanks for the short review)

WEEZ

dave1010 · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 Sep 2005, 02:22 pm »

Yes, these are the original J.J. tubes. Does anyone have any experience with the 12AT7/5965 tube in the T7? I know that it is a 47 mu versus the 60mu (whatever that means) of the standard 12AT7. Most importantly, I hope that this does not damage the pre-amp in any way. I keep buying NOS tubes for my electronics, and then re-selling them when I go back to the Russian tubes. I always pick products that work with the original tubes it seems, i.e. BAT, Audible Illusions, Van Alstine.

dave1010 · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Sep 2005, 02:23 pm »

Yes, these are the original J.J. tubes. Does anyone have any experience with the 12AT7/5965 tube in the T7? I know that it is a 47 mu versus the 60mu (whatever that means) of the standard 12AT7. Most importantly, I hope that this does not damage the pre-amp in any way. I keep buying NOS tubes for my electronics, and then re-selling them when I go back to the Russian tubes. I always pick products that work with the original tubes it seems, i.e. BAT, Audible Illusions, Van Alstine.

WEEZ · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Sep 2005, 10:19 pm »

Best to talk to Frank to be sure, but a 5965 should be a compatible-but lower gain- alternate to the 12AT7. Might sound more 'tooby'. Might not.

I have heard from several people that the JJ tubes are great in the AVA curcuits. I have also heard from people that they are great-period.

I would check w/Frank to be sure about the compatibility in the T-7 curcuit just to be safe..

WEEZ

dave1010 · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Sep 2005, 03:36 pm »

Well, I was wrong about the JJ tubes, I had EH tubes in the linestage. So, now the question is whether the TFK's are equal to the JJ's. I put in 3 JJ's in my old Audible Illusions pre-amp, and I found them to be ok. I have no doubts they sound great in the T7ECR, the EH tubes sounded good, but the bass and the highs were overly pronounced sounding in my system. When I turned up the volume, it became uncomfortable to listen to. So the TFK tubes came in on thursday, and the difference was immediate! I cannot believe how great these tubes are in my system! The soundstage is huge, the detail is truly amazing! The sound is so much better, that it sounds like.... I bought a better cd player! The T7 is so neutral and airy sounding, with a much improved bass! The sound is very 3D, something I never expected from a Monitor speaker. Not slightly muddy like before. This is the first time I have liked NOS tubes, no actually I love these tubes. There I said it! What a difference!!!!!!!!!!!

ricmon · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Nov 2005, 05:53 pm »

dave1010 exactly which EH tubes are you using in your TR7?

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Nov 2005, 07:22 pm »

Dave1010:
My good friend Carl gave me a pair of Mullard 12AT7/ECC81 tubes to try in my T7ECR. These tubes are supposed to be the cat's meow. I really can't tell much difference in sound between the JJ and Mullard tubes. Maybe the Mullards are a little warmer and maybe the JJ's have a better high extension. I think that Frank designs and builds his gear around what works the best and what is available at a reasonable cost.

Cheers
Charlie

ricmon · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Nov 2005, 09:27 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins

Dave1010:
My good friend Carl gave me a pair of Mullard 12AT7/ECC81 tubes to try in my T7ECR. These tubes are supposed to be the cat's meow. I really can't tell much difference in sound between the JJ and Mullard tubes.

Charles the Mullards that get the rave reviews are the 12AX7 / ECC83 and are considerbly more costly that the 12AT's and hard to find.

regards ricmon

skrivis · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Nov 2005, 09:47 pm »

Quote from: ricmon

Quote from: Charles Calkins
Dave1010:
My good friend Carl gave me a pair of Mullard 12AT7/ECC81 tubes to try in my T7ECR. These tubes are supposed to be the cat's meow. I really can't tell much difference in sound between the JJ and Mullard tubes.

Charles the Mullards that get the rave reviews are the 12AX7 / ECC83 and are considerbly more costly that the 12AT's and hard to find.

regards ricmon

I have a bunch of old Mullard 12AX7s that were some select version, have gold-plated pins, and each came in a foam-lined box.

They're nice, quiet tubes, but I don't see anything magic about them. I certainly wouldn't pay more for them than AVA's hand-picked tubes.

dave1010 · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Nov 2005, 04:15 pm »

I just returned the J.J. tubes my friend loaned me. How cheap am I? The J.J.'s sounded better than I thought they would. I had them in for three days, and they were the fourth best tube I have heard in the T7ECR. I am going to buy some J.J.'s (6922) for the first 4 empty slots in my BAT VK-D5 player as they are obviously lots better than all the Russian tubes I have tried! I use 4 Russians in the DAC section, and use two NOS Sylvania Gold Brand 6922's in the "lead position". Now back to the 12AT7 . Well, they pale in comparison to the TFK's, and they should! The TFK's are 70-100 bucks a pair...I have now tried RCA 12AT7/6201 tubes in the pre-amp. Both double and triple Mica, and they are exciting and kind of strange sounding, they have deep bass, nice mids, very neutral sounding, ok highs, but absolutely no decay. Everything comes out very percussive sounding, but the notes dissapear immediately. It negates what the BAT does best. I have 5 now, and I will re-sell them! The same for the Mullard CV 4024, no bass at all! The same for the standard Mullard 12AT7! The EH in answer to a question was the 12AT7, it sucked big time! So the 6201 is 3rd, the TFK ECC801S is second, and first is Amperex PQ labeled Valvo 6201. It is a hard tube to identify, as it has all the Amperex signs, gold pin, 4 seams, it says Amperex PQ-6201 on it, but it is a Valvo! Tubemonger.com has a picture of it. It cost me 31.00 for two including shipping/insurance, on E-Bay. Tubemonger wants 60 each!!!. The Telefunken is supposed to be the best, but the Amperex is so sweet sounding, not as clinical as the TFK. Deeper Bass, than the TFK which does not add anything to the Bass. Fantastic sounding highs, just a richer version of the TFK, without the amazing soundstaging of the TFK. The bottom line, Frank cannot put out his equipment with NOS tubes, it obviously makes no sense. Now everything is system dependent, but the J.J. tubes are mediocre, but very good for Russians. However, I cannot stand them now that I have tried the others...All I know for sure is that this pre-amp is very good, but it is amazing with the right NOS tubes!!! I have had no luck at all with the Mullards at all, they have sounded kinda bad, but I hear the old ones are to die for. This tube rolling business gets complicated, hopefully this will help. Fortunately 12AT7 tubes are very inexpensive if you learn what to look for. I am learning the hard way!!!!!! Brent Jesse recording is a good source, as you can return anything you do not like. Just be prepared to spend a lot more money, but you could save in the long run. Returns or re-selling tubes is a pain, and Brent can save you lots of pain, just not cash!