The grass is always greener...

Bob_Brines · « **Reply #60 on:** 26 Jul 2005, 07:28 pm »

I sure am enjoying this thread. This kind of advertising can't be bought at any price.

I'm glad Ozzy was able to sell his FTA-2000's. He was asking too much of them. Also glad to see that they have found a good home. BTW, GHM, where do you live?

Bob

Doc Jr 8156 · « **Reply #61 on:** 26 Jul 2005, 07:59 pm »

I was about to ask GHM whether his was Ozzy's pair. These are really nice speakers IMHO. Very competitive to single driver speakers 3x their asking price (may even be better). I hope Bob will get more orders soon and I hope many single driver afficionados discover this relatively unknown gem. I still don't get why others are using this speaker without the correction circuit that Bob designed. There is so much richness that will be amiss when the filter is not in the circuit. For those who are not using the circuit because of lower high freq. output, try the Fostex T90A. A very good match. Godspeed.

GHM · « **Reply #62 on:** 27 Jul 2005, 12:56 am »

Hi Bob..I live roughly 35 minutes from Auburn University in Alabama and 15 minutes from Columbus, Georgia(100 miles south of Atlanta). It was 550 miles one way to Ozzy's house. I got a chance to hear his system...very nice in deed. He really was asking too much of the speakers. He plays his music very LOUD!! Almost to the point of pain for me. I can't listen to music that loud and enjoy it very much. He easily pushes 100 dB or better.

I'm at awe over these speakers!! I can't ask them for a better sound.
After spending most of today listening to them . They never become obtrusive or over bearing . I've discovered these are what I've been searching for. I'm done with speaker buying for a while. Unless I put something in another room. The speakers are better than I hoped!!
The next time I go audition some single driver speakers..I'm taking a very long measuring stick!

Doc is right about that richness.The FTA 2000s have it in spades!!
I put in a test disc just to see how they handle 50 Hz, 40 hz , 30 Hz and 20 Hz. The speakers do 30 Hz in my room as easily as they do 40 Hz. I could detect no drop in volume(didn't have SPL meter available at the time). 20 Hz was down..I'm guessing 10 or 15 dB ?

tyee · « **Reply #63 on:** 27 Jul 2005, 05:56 am »

Hey Bob
An idea popped into my mind that a lot of us here may have thought of also. It seems that the Visaton B200, which is very popular on AC, could use a box like your using for the FTA-2000's. Has anyone suggested this to you and what do you think?

tyee

GHM · « **Reply #64 on:** 28 Jul 2005, 03:37 pm »

Does anyone know how many of the FTA-2000s there are ?
Just curious to see who has actually heard this design.
I'm guessing not many.

TIA

JLM · « **Reply #65 on:** 28 Jul 2005, 05:14 pm »

GHM,

Sounds like your story and mine of driving to pick them up are similar. From his comments I thought Ozzy was one of those "loud freaks".

Glad you like them.

I agree that they best the sound of the Abbys (better drivers, better cabinet design) and certainly most other "wimpy" single driver designs. While I have no compliants of the FTA-2000 cabinets, Terry Cain's workmanship is simply amazing.

Bob mentioned on his forum recently that he had built 4 pair of FTA-2000 and sold several sets of plans.

Doc,

You're comment about not using the correction circuit is gonna make me break out of this "half packed and have my life on hold waiting to move" mode I've been in and hook them up (by this weekend I promise).

Doc Jr 8156 · « **Reply #66 on:** 28 Jul 2005, 06:06 pm »

JLM,
You will like the corretcion circuit as long as your using enough watts to drive the speakers w/c will be less sensitive than the original (90db/watt). Pay attention to the midrange, there should be less grain and shout. The soundstage presence will be much well deliniated. Lastly, bass response quality and force will be better by multiples compared to that w/o the circuit. I must remind you break in also applies to the circuit. I can share some other tricks I did to mine w/c in my ears improved this speaker's performance. PM me if interested. Godspeed.

GHM · « **Reply #67 on:** 28 Jul 2005, 10:43 pm »

JLM ,
I agree with you about the Cains. They are lovely built speakers. But for me it all boils back down to how they sound . A speaker can be a work of art but if it doesn't cut the mustard.....I have no use for it.

I had to laugh at the whimpy comment.

After listening the last couple of days I understand where your coming from. There's simply so much information in the music not heard by many in the single driver camp. I'm not a bass freak. But if it's in the recording I would like to hear it. I'm still tripping on how the BB FTAs separate the instruments so clearly without calling attention to just one instrument in the soundstage.

It's a shame more people haven't heard such a design. They have no idea what they've been missing. I now find it funny when people say
"Single drivers aren't suited for full orchestra and voices"..you got to be kidding!!

Apparently they haven't heard one designed like these.
It's pretty cool knowing only 6 people or so in the country own the same speaker! Although I'm sure this will change as people get a chance to hear them.

Also since you've had yours longer than anyone. Just how long does it take to break in these speakers?

JLM · « **Reply #68 on:** 29 Jul 2005, 12:58 am »

GHM,

Well put. I don't consider myself to be a "bass freak" either but once you've heard deep, musical, clear, dynamic bass it can quickly spoil you. I've never heard any other speaker cabinet type do it as well as transmission lines, including a pair of 36 cu. ft. bass horns driven with two 15 inch drivers each. Not even close.

I've had 6 SET owners listen to the FTAs so far and I'm not sure any of them knew what to make of the full spectrum sound. Deep bass is foundational. Some musical forms don't need it, but many just plain do. Systems that can't reproduce deep bass just aren't audiophile grade in my book. That goes for speakers or mushy bass tube amps too. IMO its the difficulty that most tube amps have controlling bass reproduction or lack of power to handle speakers that can do deep bass thats to blame.

Bob says it takes 500 hours for the F200A drivers to fully break in. I was swapping amps in and out, so I really couldn't say. I'm sure they'll break in faster given more watts and being driven hard.

GHM · « **Reply #69 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 01:21 pm »

JLM,

Have you had a chance to evaluate the stock Teac AL700P further on the FTA 2000s ?
I wonder how it will sound with the zobel network in place.
I thought about ordering one today. Just wondering if it's going to be worth the trouble. I plan to use some Endler stepped attenuators as volume controls for the moment.
I may even send it to Vinnie if he has the time to mess with it.

TIA

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #70 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 02:20 pm »

Quote from: GHM

JLM,

Have you had a chance to evaluate the stock Teac AL700P further on the FTA 2000s ?
I wonder how it will sound with the zobel network in place.
I thought about ordering one today. Just wondering if it's going to be worth the trouble. I plan to use some Endler stepped attenuators as volume controls for the moment.
I may even send it to Vinnie if he has the time to mess with it.

TIA

Hi GHM,

I've been modding quite a bit of Teacs lately, and I have all the parts in stock and have the process down to both an science and art

Send it on over!

Dmason · « **Reply #71 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 03:46 pm »

Gymane

IMHO, 30 watts is the min required power for the F200A. This driver loves some current. It rocks with a 250 watt amp. It is NOT a high effiiciency driver, nor is it intended as one. Mine measure 88/89db@1KHz. You will find they really wake up with some juice.

The Vinnie mod Teac bears little sonic resemblance to the stock unit. Mine is now pretty close to properly cooked, and the highs have become waaaaaaay smoother than I could have hoped for. I really, really love this amp. It has control and grunt which mimicks much larger game, and induces greater bass response in my F200A in their 45L bass reflex cabinets. Add a NON-OS DAC for buttery smoothness, no noise, sweet sound. Very easy, listen all day long sound. And then there are the Visatons...

JLM · « **Reply #72 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 04:02 pm »

GHM,

Doc was right about adding the circuit. Somehow the circuits I had didn't match what Bob has posted on his forum so I rebuilt them and tried them out. Doc was spot on: lots more bass; improved midrange/imaging; and loss of efficiency. The loss of efficiency wasn't huge, but I felt that the "grip" of the Clari-T on the FTA-2000's was marginal before.

So the use of the Teac is pretty much a given in my situation as Vinnie, Bob, and Dan have been saying. I'll be sending in to be Vinnized. But without a pre-amp, using the Teac (with its rear mounted small cheap volume pots) is a PITA. So the Teac has remained in the box. But before I use the Teac a volume control will be needed. That's where the SqueezeBox 2 comes in (see related Red Wine thread).

The combined bass output of a modded Teac and this "new" FTA-2000 might very well be too much of a good thing, but a simple resistor change in the circuit should pretty well address that.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #73 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 11:15 pm »

Dmason wrote:

Quote

IMHO, 30 watts is the min required power for the F200A. This driver loves some current. It rocks with a 250 watt amp. It is NOT a high effiiciency driver, nor is it intended as one. Mine measure 88/89db@1KHz. You will find they really wake up with some juice.

Right on Doc. When I first set up the FTA-2000s, I had it paired with a DNA-225 along with naked Ultimate Attenuators and a DVD transport. I mean, 200+ watts of dynamic power. The F200As sang like no tomorrow. Something worth mentioning is that some high sensitivity drivers or fullrange drivers have issues when there is more power dumped on them....they compress and have issues producing decent sound. Not the case with this design.

I have these "trunks" paired with a pair of 40 watts op chip monos and they give me all the speed and frequency I need on both extremes.
I cannot believe that I have so many speakers laying around, but this is IT in the camp of quality of drivers and components.

The greatest thing about this speaker is its marginally high sensitivity which make me think of amplifiers that are low in power but high in boggie factor (NAIM, anyone?)

I have been having great success in pairing it up with all sort of designs which give me plenty of headroom.

PS: As of late, I have been into playing simply vinyl via the speakers and don't they really flow?
Glad to hear that I am one of the only 4 people in the entire country with these speakers.

Paul Keum

GHM · « **Reply #74 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 01:27 am »

I nearly pulled the trigger on that Teac today. I came with in millimeters of hitting the final buy button!

I wasn't sure if it could do the job properly though. With all the great comments .It looks like it might work. I may just give it a try. I tried the FTA 2000s with my Van Alstine Dynaco 85 wpc. Mega bass from hell! I feel like I did lose some transparency though. I'm still scratching my head at how much weight these things can add to the music.

These are definitely not light in the ass speakers when producing low frequencies.

JLM · « **Reply #75 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 11:16 pm »

GHM,

Check for messages.

GHM · « **Reply #76 on:** 5 Aug 2005, 12:37 am »

Tonight I put the FTA 2000s through some paces. A couple of family members and I watched a movie using them as the Mains. My son in law ask me.." Where's the subwoofer at" ?. Man.. I almost fell off the couch !

He sat there looking puzzled trying to figure out what was going on.

He then ask me "do the speakers have powered subs in the bottom of them"?

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #77 on:** 5 Aug 2005, 02:47 am »

For the floor space they occupy, sure one could accomodate at least 3 more pairs of drivers, but then, where would the single driver magic go?

GHM, ask these people to guess the size of the subwoofer being used and we will see some figures in the teens of inches....Oh, love to play the audio devil.

GHM · « **Reply #78 on:** 5 Aug 2005, 03:04 am »

Paul,

you are a devil!!!!

A few days back I had a audio buddy over to take a listen. He uses the Eminent Tech 8As... very nice hybrid planar speakers.
He's also using a 350 wpc amplifier to power his speakers. He was taken back by what a single eight inch can do with less than 1/8 of the wattage. The Eminent speakers use a 8 inch just for the bass.He told me he thinks the FTAs are going lower than the Eminents which are spec to 25 Hz. After the movie tonight I agree ..the speakers are without a doubt doing 25Hz in my room without strain! This is with maybe 30 wpc.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #79 on:** 5 Aug 2005, 04:22 am »

GHM, but then, remember that if one can "hear" the lows, they are not close to 20 hz. Aren't low frequencies not supposed to be directional? One thing for sure, this thing goes in to the 30s easily in my room, producing more bass than my Gershman SW-1s and X-1s combined...which are rated in combo to 20 hz.

The lovely thing about this design is the quality of bass, totally not boomy, but tuneful and quite fast.

Remember to test people when they come. It would help if you had a sub powered on, just for the looks so people would put one and the other together. Sometimes, perceptions do more to confuse people than anything else.