Experience with digital FM in the states?

ScottMayo · « **on:** 22 Jul 2005, 01:43 pm »

A friend's tuner (Carver tx-11a) has finally died, and he's in the market. Apparently digital FM has caught on in England, but I'm not finding much info about it in the US (and it sounds like the standards are different?!). Anyone know of a good tuner (not a receiver) that's AM/FM/digital FM capable? I doubt he'll be going over $300; he's about 40 miles from most of the stations that matter here, so some ability to pull in stations is important.

Anyone interested in a cooked Carver tx-11a, contact me. From the sounds of how it died, it might be a power supply that went marginal and then cooked, but that's guesswork.

eico1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 02:38 pm »

I ts different in the US and called HD Digital Radio. Not many home receivers or stations broadcasting in HD. The main benefit will be that the audio processing might not be as distracting as with the current analog signal.

steve

doug s. · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jul 2005, 11:30 pm »

Quote from: ScottMayo

A friend's tuner (Carver tx-11a) has finally died, and he's in the market. Apparently digital FM has caught on in England, but I'm not finding much info about it in the US (and it sounds like the standards are different?!). Anyone know of a good tuner (not a receiver) that's AM/FM/digital FM capable? I doubt he'll be going over $300; he's about 40 miles from most of the stations that matter here, so some ability to pull in stations is important.

Anyone interested in a cooked Carver tx-11a, contact me. Fr ...

if yer friend really liked his carver, he may wanna consider getting it fixed; here's a place:
http://www.radioxtuners.com/
there's also a coupla places in new england; go the fmtunerinfo.com to find 'em.

personally, i would invest in a vintage tuner, forget about digital. it will be some time before it's here, & if folks' experience over in europe is any indication, it won't be worth much. $300 wisely spent on a vintage tuna will get you sound quality to rival the best cd & winyl playback - *providing* you have a quality station broadcasting a quality signal. (i would also put up a good-condition $300 vintage tuna against any new magnum-dynalab tuna, fwiw...) if a modern tuna is a must, my 1st (and only?) choice would be for a used roksan caspian - fantastic sound quality & reception, for a modern tuna. they can be found used, once in a while, usually for <$400.

doug s.

Bob Wilcox · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 12:12 am »

Scott

My wife's new car came with a XM receiver and a 3 month trial activation. Each station is specializes much like the music-only stations on some cable systems and satellite TV systems. The sound is clear and static free. However, an FM station 40 miles away (102.1 Springfield, MA) consistently sounds better through the FM section of the factory stereo.

Bob

warnerwh · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 01:51 am »

ditto to Doug's post. A modded vintage tuner with a good antenna is definitely the way to go. It's as good as it gets which is much better than most people realize.

doug s. · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 04:10 am »

Quote from: Bob Wilcox

Scott

My wife's new car came with a XM receiver and a 3 month trial activation. Each station is specializes much like the music-only stations on some cable systems and satellite TV systems. The sound is clear and static free. However, an FM station 40 miles away (102.1 Springfield, MA) consistently sounds better through the FM section of the factory stereo.

Bob

xm/sirius satellite radio is completely unlistenable in a good home audio system. barely tolerable as background music, & only then if you use a tube buffer stage w/it. but you still cannot set yourself in front of your rig & actually *listen* to it. harsh, grainy, etched, no soundstage at all, no natural tonal quality. it actually gives me a headache. even as background music, it's irritating after 30 minutes or so.

doug s.

eico1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 02:22 pm »

Don't confuse satalite with HD Digital Radio, not the same thing. HD Digital Radio probably will be a cleaner signal as I mentioned mostly due to less processing and maybe the noise floor. I think that is the one the origional poster is refering to.

steve

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 02:33 pm »

Quote from: eico1

Don't confuse satalite with HD Digital Radio, not the same thing. HD Digital Radio probably will be a cleaner signal as I mentioned mostly due to less processing and maybe the noise floor. I think that is the one the origional poster is refering to.

steve

yure right, but i dint want anyone thinking satellite radio was something that is actually listenable!

and, even so, as i mentioned before, those on "the other side of the pond" are not at all thrilled w/the sound of digital radio.

doug s.

Bob Wilcox · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 06:03 pm »

The only advantages of sateliite radio are the specialized programming and good reception.Based on my comparison in the car, I am not surprised it sounds wretched on a good system.

I picked the particular FM station to compare because it is one of the few in my area that does not junk up the signal too bad. On my Scott 350, most of the powerful stations in these parts sound pretty bad.

I think Arcam supports the european format but does not import those units to the U.S.

Bob

ScottMayo · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 06:51 pm »

Ignoring XM, it sounds like HD radio is not ready for prime time in the US, or at least there isn't much strong positive experience with it by people here. I think I'll suggest he get his Carver fixed and wait 5 years on digital...

SWG255 · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 08:40 pm »

WGMS, the only full-time classical radio station in the Washington, D.C. area advertises that it is a digital FM station, but I have never heard any receivers that can receive/process digital FM signals so i can't comment on the sound quality. WGMS' programming is fine for casual classical listening, it's better than most of the other radio stations in D.C. now that WETA doesn't program classical music during the week.

As for the sound quality of XM radio, some of the latest generation units are easier to listen to. My XM MyFi receiver sounds OK through it's line out connection on the home docking cradle feeding my Headroom headphone amp and Sennheiser HD-580 cans. The top half octave is rolled off, which is preferrable to the splattery sound I heard from first generation XM tuners. I've connected the unit to my preamp and listened to it through my VMPS RM-40s, and then i must agree, the sound was not suitable for long-term concentrated listening. A friend of mine just bought the Polk XM tuner, I hope to pay him a visit and see if it sounds better through a high-end stereo than my XM MyFi receiver.

That being said, i listen to my XM MyFi quite a bit, it seems the best way to hear new music in a wide variety of genres. I've purchased several CDs recently and been happy with all of them due to the exposure to the music on XM first.

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Jul 2005, 12:56 am »

Quote from: SWG255

WGMS, the only full-time classical radio station in the Washington, D.C. area advertises that it is a digital FM station, but I have never heard any receivers that can receive/process digital FM signals so i can't comment on the sound quality. WGMS' programming is fine for casual classical listening, it's better than most of the other radio stations in D.C. now that WETA doesn't program classical music during the week.

As for the sound quality of XM radio, some of the latest generation units are easier t ...

i have heard less-than-stellar feedback re: the polk xm tuna. i can't imagine listening to xm thru headfones - yikes! but, i guess i need to tell m friend to get a latest-gen xm tuna - i am sick of getting a headache when i go to wisit him.

yes, it's too bad weta has cut back on its classical programming. but, my tastes run more to jazz/latin/afro/caribbean music. fortunately, wpfw does a lot of this, & its signal quality is excellent. most all my listening is fm. and, weta also has excellent folk & alternative programming on the weekends. gotta catch mary cliff - she starts in 5 minutes!

doug s.

Bob_Brines · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Jul 2005, 12:16 pm »

Sometime our choices are reduced to little or none. Little Rock AR has a very good 24/7 classical station -- KLRE -- that has a mix I really like. They lean toward 1850 and earlier as apposed to Sirius 80 where the emphasis is 1870-1930. Unfortunately, I live some 50 miles west of Little Rock in hill country and can't get KLRE at all. I haven't tried a big Yagi yet, but probably will.

Therefore, my off-the-air listening is Sirius 80 through a Dish satellite receiver. I'm using the satellite digital out to a Yamaha HT receiver. The speakers are set to "small" with bass to the "sub out" The mains are my own design FB-16's (Fostex FE167E in a 24 liter BR) and the sub is my own SP-10 (Peerless 850148 in a 60 liter BR).

One thing about serious (!) classical listeners is their ability to overlook the failings of the reproduction chain and enjoy the underlying music. That said, I find that my primary objection to the Sirius feed is that it is rather highly compressed. It is seriously (here we go again) lacking in dynamic range. Other than that, the feed is very clean, crisp and has good extension both high and low.

Interestingly, far and away the best sound stage comes from those 1950's two mic re-releases that Sirius likes to play as "archive" recordings. Modern multi-mic recordings of classical music with the synthetic sound stage and all instrument too closely mic'd just don't compare to the openness and "Life" of a good two-mic recording.

Bob

doug s. · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Jul 2005, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: Bob_Brines

Sometime our choices are reduced to little or none. Little Rock AR has a very good 24/7 classical station -- KLRE -- that has a mix I really like. They lean toward 1850 and earlier as apposed to Sirius 80 where the emphasis is 1870-1930. Unfortunately, I live some 50 miles west of Little Rock in hill country and can't get KLRE at all. I haven't tried a big Yagi yet, but probably will.

Therefore, my off-the-air listening is Sirius 80 through a Dish satellite receiver. I'm using the satellite digital out t ...

hi bob, get a winegard hd-6065 antenna. under $100 shipped. not quite the specs of the +$200 aps-13, but as good or better than the $150 aps-9. use rg-6 instead of rg-59 - much better coax. if ya have a *really* long wire run, ya may wanna investigate using rg-11.

http://www.tvantenna.com/products/fmreception/fmantennas/HD-6065P.html
http://www.starkelectronic.com/fm.htm

JoshK · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 02:56 pm »

Has anyone tried FTA? I have been reading up a bit on FTA with my HTPC research and apparently there are many FTA music stations available. I am not sure what format they are but I may try it out and see for myself.

woodsyi · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Jul 2005, 03:38 pm »

I don't know about free, but my wife uses Direct TV music channels (specifically light classical channel) as background music. The quality is not like CD but it is listenable even when processed with my old Oulaw 950 as 7 channel stereo. I would imagine FTA would be about the same as Direct TV but it's a guess.

On a tangential note, there has been talk of interference created by coemission of HD on regular FM broadcasts. I haven't really noticed any difference on WGMS broadcasts. Has anyone?