Squeezing more bass out of my system (room?)

tomek · « **on:** 8 Apr 2005, 08:39 pm »

Hi guys,

I have a fairly large pair of speakers, with two ten inch woofers each, that are supposed to go down to about 30hz.

However, I feel that the bass is still fairly thin. It improved when I went to a digital amp from my old tube amp, but listening to a cd a while ago it was still pretty weak.

When I went up to change a cd however, I noticed that when I was in between the speakers changing the disc, there was NOTICEABLY more bass. It was much fuller and more pleasing. Basically, that's what I want to hear, but I'm not getting that in my listening position.

I'm wondering if this is normal or not and what I can do. Will a different position help? I've had them nearer to the walls before, but I lose the depth that I enjoy in the soundstage and the bass can get boomy. Will basstraps really help? Will they make a significant difference?

Here is a picture of my room. It's a 14 x 14 foot room that opens up on one side into the rest of my apartment. It's carpeted.

warnerwh · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Apr 2005, 09:41 pm »

One problem is the square area which makes the nulls twice as bad. You need to move the speakers around and your listening position til you find the best compromise. Some sort of bass traps would help alot.

WEEZ · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Apr 2005, 09:57 pm »

Are there windows on any of those walls?

You might try your sofa angled across the upper left-hand corner as I look at you diagram. Your TV/system rack directly opposite on the short angled wall. Then your speakers facing your sofa.

(I don't know how to draw it on a computer

) but essentially just rotate everything 45 degrees.

WEEZ

tomek · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Apr 2005, 11:45 pm »

Ok, I updated the room diagram. Yes, there are several windows.

I'm not sure I'd be thrilled with turning everything 45 degrees. Thankfully my stereo obsession has died down enough to the point that it isn't the first priority for the room.

However, I would like to get the bass that I'm hearing in parts of the room to my listening position.

WEEZ · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Apr 2005, 12:52 am »

I'll bet that's a patio door on the left?

If you can get a 'thirds' placement somehow- the bass will improve.

WEEZ

tomek · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Apr 2005, 05:36 am »

yes, it's a patio.

what's a 'thirds' placement, and why will it improve bass?

pauldixonuk · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Apr 2005, 10:15 am »

The distance between speakers should be 2/3 of the distance between the speakers and your seating position.

From your picture your speakers look too close to you. Try moving them back a little for this ideal ratio. Plus their closer proximity to the wall boundaries should lift the bass output.

MaxCast · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Apr 2005, 11:24 am »

If you can't move things enough to get the sound you like you could change to a sub/sat system. That would enable you to keep the best position for imaging and move the sub to the best spot for bass...which may be next to your couch.

MaxCast · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Apr 2005, 11:26 am »

If you can't move things enough to get the sound you like you could change to a sub/sat system. That would enable you to keep the best position for imaging and move the sub to the best spot for bass...which may be next to your couch.

Have you done any frequency sweeps to find out how much bass your loosing and at what frequency?

boead · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Apr 2005, 04:55 pm »

I had the same problem, solved it with traps.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=48333

pauldixonuk · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Apr 2005, 10:01 am »

Might have been an awful lot quicker to just move the sub closer, perhaps in the corner right behind you.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Apr 2005, 01:49 pm »

I don't believe that Tomek runs a sub...

pauldixonuk · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Apr 2005, 01:56 pm »

Sorry, I was reffering to Boead's situation, in the previous link : )

mcgsxr · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Apr 2005, 10:44 pm »

Ooops, sorry even more, I should have paid more attention to where this thread has gone!

I will admit that in my basement room, there is far more bass around the outside of the room, than in the middle, where the listening position is... I have just learned to deal with it, since there does not appear to be an easy fix.

In August I move into a new place, and will have an entire unfinished basement to play with - that should be fun to slowly turn into a listening area over the next couple of years!

WEEZ · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Apr 2005, 01:03 am »

tomek,

Pick up a copy of Robert Harley's book "The Complete Guide to High End Audio"- or similar books. (probably available at your library).

There is a chapter devoted to room acoustics and will describe the 'thirds' placement as well as the "angled" set-up I described earlier.

Getting speakers to sound 'correct' in your room has as much to do with placement as it does the quality of the speakers in the first place. Room treatments are surely an option- but experimenting with placement in your room should be tried first. A square room is the most difficult-but trust me; the angled placement will maximize your happiness. (I know- I used to have that problem and the angled placement worked. Fortunately- I now have a slightly better room).

Also, look up speaker placement at the Cardas website. The 'Golden Ratio' described there works.

If you can get satisfactory sound with placement techniques- room treatment will only be icing on the cake.

good luck,

WEEZ

boead · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Apr 2005, 01:29 am »

Quote from: mcgsxr

Ooops, sorry even more, I should have paid more attention to where this thread has gone!

I will admit that in my basement room, there is far more bass around the outside of the room, than in the middle, where the listening position is... I have just learned to deal with it, since there does not appear to be an easy fix.

In August I move into a new place, and will have an entire unfinished basement to play with - that should be fun to slowly turn into a listening area over the next couple of years!

Don't learn to deal with it, there is an easy fix.
BASS TRAPS!

That was the point of my post, I learned the hard and long way that bass traps will bring the bass to the center of them room where your head is.

And no, moving the sub to another part of the room didn’t help the mode problems still existed. Moving it into the corner helped a lot but it took traps to solve the problem.