What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)

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tortoiseman2542

I am inspired by Mike Lundy's crossover he posted in his speaker build thread and by conversations I had via email with him and am wondering what components would one get to get the highest quality crossover for the X-LS? 

I used to have a pair of X-LS Encores and I did the Skiing Ninja Master crossover upgrade.  I believe it had the sonicaps, mills resistors, foil inductors, and I had Sonicap platinum bypass option (not sure where Sean bypassed them in the crossover). 

I LOVED those speakers but am wondering if even better components exist now?  I want high quality but do realize there is a law of diminishing return on the crossover parts. 

What is everyone's thoughts on crossover components? 

Thanks!
Robert

mkrawcz

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #1 on: 19 Aug 2021, 09:17 pm »
The tweeter cap value is a little unique for what is available out there and you cannot use a pure foil cap because it wont fit in the speaker, so I would use Duelund JDM Silver Foil bypass caps with all the Sonicaps in the crossover. That is probably as far as you can go with that speaker and get improvements. IMO

mlundy57

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #2 on: 19 Aug 2021, 09:25 pm »
This is what I’m putting in my next X-LS Encore build:

Sonicaps in all positions
Miflex KPCU by-pass caps on all Sonicaps
Alpha air core foil inductors
Path Audio resistors

Everything came from Danny except the resistors which I got from PartsConnection

Mike

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #3 on: 19 Aug 2021, 11:18 pm »
If you want fully copper caps in the tweeter circuit, try to get ones that are rated for 250v. 600V caps need external crossovers, they're just too big... lol

I believe you can find 250V miflex caps on PartConnexion, they're much smaller and will still fit inside the speaker.

But for high end bang for buck, Mike's suggestion would be my go to.
I've heard great things about VCap Odam caps from a few people, but haven't played with them myself.

As for resistors, I'd also recommend Path Audio resistors, I'm using them in my current NX-Studio build after getting seceral recommendations from people here.

tortoiseman2542

Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #4 on: 20 Aug 2021, 12:43 am »
Thanks Mike and Hobbs. Is there a lost of caps and values needed?  I know that might be proprietary but I thought I’d ask.

Robert

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #5 on: 20 Aug 2021, 12:54 am »
There are 2 primary caps in the tweeter circuit and 1 in the woofer.
3 resisitors in the tweeter circuit.
One inductor for each.

As for values, you'd need to order a kit over the phone, except for the parts you want to upgrade yourself then buy those parts after the kit arrives.

RonP

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #6 on: 20 Aug 2021, 01:20 pm »

I've heard great things about VCap Odam caps from a few people, but haven't played with them myself.

Please keep us posted if you guys at the shop get some first-hand experience in them. I too hear good things, after LONG burn in times.

mkrawcz

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #7 on: 20 Aug 2021, 01:32 pm »
The problem with vcaps (or foil caps) is there is not a value for what is needed, so there would have to be two caps used to achieve the correct value and at that point, you've spent about as much money on the Encores as the NX-Studios cost. No matter what crossover parts you use in the Encores, the Studios will always beat them easily.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #8 on: 20 Aug 2021, 01:52 pm »
Checking the values available on VHaudio, all the values needed for the Encores exist, including the bypass values.

You would need to double up for the woofer circuit of the Studio however.

With my Studios having an external crossover, i can make a decked out version with VCaps, along with my current decked out Miflex  and $25 barebones crossovers and swap between them for the fun of it. But that will likely be ways off for now.

mkrawcz

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #9 on: 20 Aug 2021, 01:58 pm »
Checking the values available on VHaudio, all the values needed for the Encores exist, including the bypass values.
Unless the schematic for the XLS Encores has changed in the last 2 years since I got mine, I am not seeing that at all for the tweeter.

Endo2112

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #10 on: 20 Aug 2021, 03:19 pm »
Just received a couple V-Cap CUTF by-pass caps to compare with the Jupiters that i currently have, will probably grab a couple of the new Duelands as well and will inform the group of my impressions after a bit of break in, the fun never ends up here!

Cheers,

Don

g3rain1

Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #11 on: 21 Aug 2021, 11:24 pm »
Hmm... I don't think this route quite make a lot of sense. Wouldn't you be better off spending the extra cash to step up to a higher tier model speaker? Those top tier components only really make sense when matching up with a top tier speaker, something from the NX line.

tortoiseman2542

Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #12 on: 22 Aug 2021, 12:00 am »
Hmm... I don't think this route quite make a lot of sense. Wouldn't you be better off spending the extra cash to step up to a higher tier model speaker? Those top tier components only really make sense when matching up with a top tier speaker, something from the NX line.

I understand that thought for sure. I am going this route because I found a pair of AV123 X-LS in Moho natural that I am using as a base.  That happens to be my personal favorite veneer. So I’m having those upgraded. I am weighing how deep down that XO rabbit hole I want to go as I realize there is a law of diminishing returns there. Crossover component upgrades from Danny’s high end to another step up isn’t too different cost wise, so I’m weighing that as well.

I used to own X-ls encores with Skiing Ninja master upgrades and adored those speakers. Going a bit beyond that would be cool.

Robert

corndog71

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #13 on: 22 Aug 2021, 03:56 pm »
The Encore tweeter, as good as it is, has a limit with transparency.  The NX series is the direction to go if that’s your goal.  Of course there’s nothing wrong with maximizing the X-LS.  This hobby is all about experimenting and having fun.

mlundy57

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #14 on: 22 Aug 2021, 04:56 pm »
The Encore tweeter, as good as it is, has a limit with transparency.  The NX series is the direction to go if that’s your goal.  Of course there’s nothing wrong with maximizing the X-LS.  This hobby is all about experimenting and having fun.

Also, a maxed out X-LS Encore is still going to be half the cost of an NX Studio with the same maxed out level of crossover. Remember to factor in the cost of the cabinet, not just the kit.

I've been able to compare the Peerless tweeter against the Neo3 tweeter in a similar design with the same level of upgraded crossover components with the X-LS Encore and the N1X. After doing extensive comparisons over many months I could not choose a clear preference. My preference boiled down to the type of music being listened to. With very detailed and dynamic music like classical I preferred the Neo 3. With more laid back music like blues and jazz I preferred the Peerless. That said, the Neo3 in an open back application is a different animal than the Neo3 in a closed back application like the N1X.

An interesting comparison would be a maxed out X-LS Encore with a stock NX-Studio. The Studio would still be more expensive than the Encore but the information would be useful.

As for the performance of a maxed out X-LS Encore, I've listened to them in systems that cost $1,000 / $3,500 / $10,000 / $40,000 / and over $100,000. In each case the performance improved so the money put into the upgraded crossovers doesn't hit a wall.

I fully expect a maxed out NX-Studio's performance to continue to improve as the quality of the system increases, at least to the same $100,000 level. Since the NX-Studio has superior performance over the X-LS Encore at the base level, it will continue to outclass the Encores at maxed out level.

Which brings the choice of X-LS Encore vs NX-Studio back to budget. If you have the budget for the NX-Studio, choose it. Otherwise choose the X-LS Encore and upgrade the crossover as much as your budget will allow.

tortoiseman2542

Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #15 on: 20 Dec 2021, 02:47 am »
The tweeter cap value is a little unique for what is available out there and you cannot use a pure foil cap because it wont fit in the speaker, so I would use Duelund JDM Silver Foil bypass caps with all the Sonicaps in the crossover. That is probably as far as you can go with that speaker and get improvements. IMO

What value of Dueland JDM Silver would I use here?

Robert

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #16 on: 20 Dec 2021, 03:06 am »
What value of Dueland JDM Silver would I use here?

Robert

We generally recommend 0.1uF for tweeter bypass caps, tho we are currently using 0.01uF sonicap bypasses for the Mini and base level X-LS kit.
Anything smaller than 0.22uF will also be fine in most cases, unless the tweeter cap is really small. (below say 4uF, then stick to 0.1uF or smaller)

With large value caps, you want the bypass to stay under 1% of the value of the main cap. For example 75uF cap, bypass should be 0.75uF or smaller.
For a bundle of caps in parallel, the same principle applies to the total value of the bundle. 100uF/1uF, 300uF/3uF, etc

mkrawcz

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Re: What components for a max X-LS Crossover? (or close to max)
« Reply #17 on: 20 Dec 2021, 10:17 am »
What value of Dueland JDM Silver would I use here?

Robert
I think the JDMs only come in one value which is .01uf.