[opnly bafld]

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[hilde45]

I listen about 85db. In a small room now and moving to one a bit larger.

But the key metric I'm thinking about here is not SPL, but dynamics, quickness, nimbleness with lower powered tube amps (not super low). There is a reason Jim once produced a 95 db speaker and it probably wasn't loudness.

[Hydro]

I have a pair of the Exotica monitors with the RAAL tweeter, I use a 35 watt Audio note tube amp with them and the sound is divine. The sound jumps out of the speakers and you can tell they have the high sensitivity compared to my 84db SS10's. I don't prefer the Exoticas exactly, but the difference is a nice change. The Exotica monitors have too much bass for my taste and I close the port and use a subwoofer with them, essentially making them a three way. I bought the Exotica's to use with a 300b SET amp I have but 92db was not efficient enough for the 8 watt SET. I tried some 96db Audio Nirvana speakers with the SET amp and they played loud enough but the highs sucked. Getting high sensitivity and flat response is very hard to achieve.   

[opnly bafld]

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[hilde45]

I appreciate the personal advice. I'm not shopping for anything or about to change anything. I'm really exploring the topic more generally and interested in what others think of the idea.

[opnly bafld]

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[hilde45]

He could have said exactly that to me in our exchange. Because he did not shut down the idea, I take it he's somewhat interested. Depends on whether the innovation effort, cost and the potential to compete in this space is worth it to him. But that's his call. I'm posting here to see if others would be interested. This is not a post about "what should Jim do" but "What would listeners like."

[Phil A]

He could have said exactly that to me in our exchange. Because he did not shut down the idea, I take it he's somewhat interested. Depends on whether the innovation effort, cost and the potential to compete in this space is worth it to him. But that's his call. I'm posting here to see if others would be interested. This is not a post about "what should Jim do" but "What would listeners like."

That's the right way to go about it.  I believe from memory the Pharos model was discontinued in part as there were drivers which were no longer produced.  There's lots of drivers that are of decent efficiency and while I'm not a speaker designer something like the below tweeter, midrange and woofer come to mind as to something in the right effeciency range with an appropriate woofer might be of interest to some (and in one spare system I do have a Fountek tweeter in a pair of bookshelves):

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ribbon-tweeters/fountek-neocd2.0m-blk-5-ribbon-tweeter-rectangular-flange-black/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/sb-audience-pro-sound/sb-audience-nero-6mrn150d-6-midrange/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/sb-audience-pro-sound/sb-audience-bianco-120b150-12-open-baffle-woofer/

I'd think something like the above efficiency wise and impedance wise could be tube amp friendly.  I haven't had a tube amp in some time.  I have a tube preamp in the main system now and in the spare system I mentioned above, I did have a tube preamp at one point.  Like everything else, demand and resources committed to current models would need to be looked at.

[JLM]

Years ago I was interested in SET amps but found high efficiency loudspeakers lacked bass and/or added colorations.  And that range is one of the worst for over stating efficiency.  Many of them were single driver designs which have their own challenges (nasal/thin midrange being one of the most prevalent, lack of ultimate output and/or dispersion being others). 

Agree that more efficient loudspeakers tend to behave more dynamically, but that is a two-edged sword in that is makes listening at moderate, more domestically friendly, levels harder to achieve. 

[hilde45]

JLM,

Perhaps I have created some confusion with my post because I'm *assuming* that there is a middle ground between the very-highly-sensitive speaker (and low-watt SET amp) and the typical, say, 88 db 8 ohm speaker (and the amps which will drive it).

This (ostensible) middle ground has more sensitive speakers -- not absurdly sensitive (100 db) but not down around 88 db, either. This is the range of about 92-97 db where very modest amps could drive it with a lot of dynamics but not be introducing the kinds of distortions you're indicating are the cost of highly sensitive speaker designs. I imagine such a middle ground because I read about, say, Tekton or Omega or Devore speakers with Raven or Schiit or First Watt amps. Etc.

But maybe it's the case that once one goes above a certain sensitivity (say 92db) they're all highly sensitive and distorting in the way you describe? If that's true, then I can more easily see why my proposal (for a Salk speaker that is above its usual sensitivities) is misplaced.

[DMurphy]

I listen about 85db. In a small room now and moving to one a bit larger.

But the key metric I'm thinking about here is not SPL, but dynamics, quickness, nimbleness with lower powered tube amps (not super low). There is a reason Jim once produced a 95 db speaker and it probably wasn't loudness.

I don't think there's any scientific basis for higher sensitivity speakers being more dynamic, nimble, or quick than well designed lower sensitivity speakers.  It's just a matter of how much power is on tap to meet an individual speaker's needs. 

[decooney]

I don't think there's any scientific basis for higher sensitivity speakers being more dynamic, nimble, or quick than well designed lower sensitivity speakers.  It's just a matter of how much power is on tap to meet an individual speaker's needs.

Exactly.  And if one prefers the sound of lower power two to eight watt 300B / 2A3 / 45 triode tube amplifiers, higher impedance and higher efficiency speakers are more commonly preferred in order to achieve the type of desired sound and presentation. Baffles, panels, enclosures tend to be larger though. This may not be an option for some who require small'ish speakers, more power comes back into play.