[wdlvwdlv]

I made the jump back to vinyl over 5 years ago and always heard about the marvels of "tube" sound. What sound expectations should I have? What I'm looking for is more sound presence and less of a squeaky clean (digital) sound. I like the way my vinyl records sound now but it would be great to have a greater sound stage and reduce or smooth out the top end. Is this what a tube sound would provide?

Looking forward to your responses.
Walt

[Grinnell]

I have used 4 different tube phono pre amps and one inexpensive SS amp.  Love the tube sound with vinyl.  I'm using a Hagerman Cornet II, they make a III now and love it good price for the value.

PS buy used so if you don't like it you don't take a big hit

[twitch54]

'Tube sound' will provide you with all the 'euphoric' distortion you could ever ask for ..........

[rotarius]

You cannot generalize like that.  A tube component can be bright, midrange forward or lean in the bass region or none of that.  It all comes down to component and speaker matching.

[Freo-1]

Different  than digital.  Certainly  not better,  due to a host of reasons. 


Still,  some people really like it. 

[SET Man]

'Tube sound' will provide you with all the 'euphoric' distortion you could ever ask for ..........

Hey!

  If that is wrong then I don't want to be right!

  Love my all tubed system, tubed pre with tubed phono stage (since 1997), SET amps (since 1999) and Single Driver speakers (since 2002) here. Technically measurement wise imperfect but emotionally perfect to me! Reminded me of the time I'm sitting in Carnegie Hall or the Met Opera.

I made the jump back to vinyl over 5 years ago and always heard about the marvels of "tube" sound. What sound expectations should I have? What I'm looking for is more sound presence and less of a squeaky clean (digital) sound. I like the way my vinyl records sound now but it would be great to have a greater sound stage and reduce or smooth out the top end. Is this what a tube sound would provide?

Looking forward to your responses.
Walt

   Many people have this notion that tube sound rolled off on top and soft. That might be the case on some vintage tubed stuffs, and even some newer stuffs today also. But there are many great sounding tube stuffs out there.

    Yes, there's something about tubed sound. I can tell you all the good and bad about it. The only way to find out if is right for you is for you do actually listen to some tubed phono stage yourself. It can be hard depending where you are.

    For me I absolutely love listening to my vinyl through my all tubed system, especially those old vinyls or those have been done in all analog.

Buddy

[jjss49]

it really depends on system synergies

in general, i would agree tubes and vinyl are more euphonic than solid state and digital

[vinyl_lady]

I've had both tube and SS phono stages; tube and SS pre amps and tube and SS amps. I've mixed them too. In my experience, soundstage is not a function of tube v SS. More a function of your speakers and how your room is set up with some influence from the equipment. I prefer tubes over SS because to me tubes sound more natural and organic with a little warmth to the sound.

[knotscott]

The best equipment I've ever heard has almost always included vinyl front end and tube electronics.  I simply find tubes to be not only more transparent, but easier to listen to as well.   There's an open lushness that brings me closer to the recording room that I don't hear as much with SS.  Tube gear seems better at doing a disappearing act.  SS is typically either somewhat veiled, or annoyingly harsh in comparison.  Though there are always good and lesser examples of each, I've never heard a top notch SS amp that sounds better than a top notch tube amp.  Convergent Audio comes to mind as the best I've heard (SS or tube), but even fairly modestly priced tube gear like a VTA amp from Tubes4Hifi for $1300 new can sound amazing...heck even the $290 Nobsound Chinese tube amp sounds clearer than many SS amps, especially the ones in the same price range.   

With that said, every tube type has a different sound, and every tube will sound different in different circuits.  Part of the fun (and part of the art) of putting together satisfying tube gear is tailoring the sound by experimenting with different tubes to get it to where you absolutely love it.  Much tougher to do with SS, and besides...they don't even glow in the dark!

[nocrapman]

In my admittedly limited experience with tubes for Hp and speaker amplification, there has always been a noise floor however faint. I have not gone up beyond a reasonable price point though and dont have experience with like of VAC, Audio Res etc. So please dont consider this a blanket statement.
The cleanest sound I heard was from a Butler amp.
I have really enjoyed the primaluna gear as well but not as clean.

SS - has been much better and for a lot less money. From a cheap NAD/Emotiva to a nice Bryston/W4S - never had to change tubes, worry about bias, heat, power consumption and just raw power/$$.

Vinyl has been a revelation though. Older well recorded LPs have a clear edge on my modest system since I popped in a MC cart. Even compared to HD/DSD tracks. The newer the recording, the fainter the difference.
I couldnt believe that a 50 year old Beatles LP cold better the remastered FLACs from a few years ago.
YMMV

[angtrumpeter]

Just bought a VTL Stereo 50 tube amp to play with and compared to my SS amps, (Adcom GFA 555, Proton 1150, B&K St-140 among others) it does create a "holographic" soundstage the others do not.  If you check out the Thomas videos on youtube, he explains it well.  It certainly was my experience.

 

[AllynW]

it really depends on system synergies

in general, i would agree tubes and vinyl are more euphoric than solid state and digital

Your post covers my thoughts.

[Elizabeth]

the problem with the top end can be fixed with better power. trying to 'hide' it is just worthless.
And tubes would be trying hard (and $$$) to hide it. I suggest investing in a really good conditioner or regenerator.  I'm a high frequency maven,I can tell you all the whining about high frequencies in every way is a problem of power AC power.
What it is you cant stand the grunge at high frequencies. but a clean pure sound does not bother at all. the grunge can be improved with better AC. the cost to work on it is generally proportional to the results.

[roscoe65]

Just bought a VTL Stereo 50 tube amp to play with and compared to my SS amps, (Adcom GFA 555, Proton 1150, B&K St-140 among others) it does create a "holographic" soundstage the others do not.  If you check out the Thomas videos on youtube, he explains it well.  It certainly was my experience.

You compared an older but well-regarded tube amp from one of the leading tube amp manufacturers in the US.  You compared it to mid-Fi components from the 1980s.  It has been my experience that well designed and built equipment, both tube and SS, can sound warm, holographic, and euphoric.  They can also both sound detailed, analytical, and extended.  If you compared your SS amps with a Pass SS amp you may change your mind.

I have an older (ca. 1987) Superphon Revelation DM preamp.  It was an inexpensive SS preamp ($400 new) filled with low-priced components that punches way above it weight.  Simply recapping the preamp (about $200) with high quality modern electrolytics takes it at least two levels higher.  I’ve heard this preamp in comparison to an Audible Illusions Modulus 2D and they are very similar in performance and character.  They are both holographic, have a lot of drive and gain, have excellent phono stages, and give great energy and live to the music.

It is unfair to make blanket generalizations, especially if we haven’t had the opportunity to hear both tube and SS gear at every level.  I recommend Jeff Day’s blog for a well rounded opinion.  I have personal experience with some equipment Jeff has reviewed over the years and my own system has moved in similar directions has his.

[Promee]

IMHO it really comes down to the quality of the piece you are using and your preferences. A great SS phono stage would probably beat a poor quality tube one and vice versa. I don’t think it’s necessarily particular to vinyl, which can be very enjoyable and engaging with analog SS devices and tube devices. Tubes bring their own flavor to the party regardless of the source. I would, however, guess that someone who is into the sound and experience of vinyl is much more more likely to dig tubes than a purely digital audiophile, though plenty of them love the tubes too.

I have only been into tubes for about a year. I got the bug immediately and couldn’t replace all my SS gear fast enough. I am sure that there are plenty of people for whom it has gone precisely the opposite way. They certainly have a different flavor to my ear than SS gear. The type of tubes your gear uses, both the style of tube and the brand / luck of the draw in terms of quality and reliability of each individual tube, will make a very noticeable difference in the sound of your system. I have been using the Don Sachs tube phono stage for a few months now, and I must say, again, just to my ear, it obliterated my previous Phono Box S. Probably not a fair comparison though, as the price points are different, and I imagine the competition from a $1,200 SS phono stage would be far more formidable.

If you haven’t already owned tube gear, you should know a few things. Tubes are a lot of fun. They require a little more care than most SS gear and you also need to be prepared for the day when you flip the switch and they don’t make sound, which has already happened to me in my first year of having tubes in my main system. With that said, if you love the sound, you will make it work. They’re also generally easier to tweak the sound on by rolling the tubes (swapping them out). Also, on the reliability issue, I should be clear that large power tubes in a power amp have a much shorter life cycle and are more prone to sudden failure than the smaller / lower power tubes that are going to be used in a phono stage or preamp.

Hope this helps! Good luck in your vinyl quest!

[FullRangeMan]

Walt, most of vinyl today are made from digital Masters, a digital file in a computer.

[Promee]

Walt, most of vinyl today are made from digital Master i.e. a digital file in a computer.

This is absolutely true and a very good point! If you are interested in a really analog experience, you should look into high quality reissues (some of which are still digital, so you have to Google them to find out the source) or vintage vinyl. Mobile Fidelity always does great analog pressings. Also, if you Google AAA vinyl, you will find vinyl the is analog recorded, analog mastered, and analog presented to you - hence AAA. Otherwise, you’re basically just getting the disadvantages of vinyl and digital together. And don’t be fooled by 180 gram high quality pressings. Yes, good quality vinyl is very important to the overall sound and I like the sound of the heavier weight records, but it does not mean that the mastering is analog or even good. Sometimes it’s 180 grams of garbage vinyl that’s full of digital swirlies and hash.

Have fun going down the rabbit hole with this! You will find that records from excellent masters and pressing plants are worth the journey 

One resource I have gotten some great tips from is www.analogplanet.com - they do a lot of features on AAA vinyl reissues.

[GregC]

Tube phono stages will be voiced however the designer wants the phono preamp to sound.  Some go for a lush romantic sound and others offer a more accurate and controlled sound.
 
I currently have a Modwright PH 9.0 SE phono stage (with NOS Siemen tubes) and it sounds superb.  It is extremely quiet and harmonically rich.  It does not put too much emphasis on any part of the frequency range.  I have owned many phono stages and this one stands out as a special component, and a great value for the money.

Dan is so confident in his phono stage that I believe he offers a 14 day money back guarantee.  I highly doubt you will return it after hearing it.  It also does not hurt that Dan is one of the nicest people in the audio business.