[Ballen]

Hello -
Been a lurker for a while, but finally thinking about upgrading a set of Sierra 2's in a living room setup to the Song series, most likely either the straight 3 or 3 Beat.  I have a set of HT2-TL's in my family room and couldn't be happier...or at least ignorance is bliss.

Room constraints:
No space/want for a sub in this system
Speakers are cornered in the living room, opening up to a dining room/kitchen
Rear of one speaker will be close to a wall...within a foot
Currently using a NAD M10 to power the Sierra's

The Encores would be a little too imposing in this room, so I'm leaning towards the narrower 3/Beat.

Some questions I have:
How does the Be tweeter compare to the Raal? 
If I go front-ported, will there be any issue with placement close to the rear wall?
Any concern powering these with my Nad M10? 
Is there an option for a white woofer (feel like I've seen the Beats with this)? 

I love the airiness of the Raal, but not opposed to trying something new since every setup in my house has the Raal.  Configuration of the room will most likely change over time where they will eventually be placed along the wall instead of the corner, but for now this is how they'd be positioned.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

Thanks
Brian

[rmdtexas]

Hi. I've had my BeATs for over a year now and very happy with them. The tweeter/midrange  is a little more forgiving of bad recordings than the Encore's according to Jim. He convinced me to go with the BeATs over the more expensive Encore for this reason.
Definitely get the front port id placing close to a wall. 

The M10 should have enough power as they are fairly easy to drive as long as you are not looking for >110db

[DEP14]

I would likely go with the Song 3-A if I were in your shoes. 

I just prefer the Raal over the Be.  I had a chance this weekend to listen to some Encores and my SS12's.  Granted the low end is different, but I liked the Raal over the Be tweeter.  That said, the Be tweeter highlighted cymbals a bit more than the Raal.

If I wanted to splurge.. I would get some 1uf Jupiter bypass caps and have them inline with the midrange and Raal.  I THINK it smooths things out a bit also.

I also think that Jim/Dennis do a slightly better job of smoothing things out and having more coherent speakers than Ascend.

And, the 3-A gets you your white woofer.

But I also love the 3-A on the website.  That Koa looks spectacular!

[Rocket]

Hi,

I don't have any experience with comparing the RAAL ribbon tweeter with the Satori Berylium tweeter.  I do however have a pair of Song 3's which I think are very impressive. I also have pair of Salk Sound HT3's which utilise an Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter and previously I had a pair of the original HT2's with the LCY Tweeter.

I think the HT2's midrange range would edge out the Song 3's as the seas midrange is a better quality midrange compared with the Tang Band.  I recently compared my Song 3's with a pair of War Audio speakers using focal kevlar mid/bass drivers and raven 1 tweeter and I thought they were similar sounding.  The Song3's bass extended the same but was better quality and I preferred the RAAL tweeter.

Personally, I'd go higher up the food chain and go for the Song 3 Beat.  Have you thought about asking Jim whether its possible to use the RAAL tweeter in the Song 3 Beat? 

If you want to go closer to the wall the front port would be the way to go as it allows you to move the speakers closer to the rear wall.

Good luck and I'm sure Jim will point you in the right direction.

Personally, I think if you compare any of Jim's speakers to retail they'll beat any speaker at their given price point. Btw I've ordered 2 speakers and a subwoofer and had them sent halfway around the world and I couldn't be happier with Jim's products and customer service.

Cheers Rod

[jd3]

I’ve had Jim’s speakers with both tweeters.  I felt that the Be tweeter had more extension and depth than the RAAL, but now listening exclusively to my SongTower RT’s, I could really live with the RAAL.  As DEP14 noted (who is holding my previous Encore’s for his friend who bought them) cymbals particularly have a certain spaciousness I miss with the RAAL’s.  I also notice a difference if I’m standing and listening too.  The Be tweeter had a wider dispersion (to me) than the RAAL, which is more focused.   That’s my take.  I ordered a pair of Song 3 BeAT’s to replace the Encores, though I could probably live happily with the Song 3 and saved some money!   

As an aside it's a reminder just how good a speaker the SongTower is. 

[jsalk]

My take on the tweeters is that they are both excellent.  They are both extremely transparent and detailed in the high treble.  While each has some advantages, I think this is basically a push.

Your amp should be fine with either of the models you are talking about.

You should be fine with front porting.

The Song3's and Song3 BeAT's can all be built with white woofers if preferred.  No problem there.

- Jim

[DWG]

Ballen, I really appreciate you starting this post.  I too own the Sierra 2 and absolutely love the RAAL tweeters.  I just wish the S2s played a little deeper.  I've considered moving up Ascends line, but just can't get past the artwork that  are Jim's cabinets and I know the sound is phenomenal too.  So I am considering the SCST, Veracity ST and the Silk Tower.  I'd also like to hear any comments on a 3-way design like the Song 3 or 3A.   

Somebody is bound to bring up the Be tweeters, and I've never lived with a pair of speakers with them.  I have concerns that they are less forgiving than the RAALs may be or maybe a bit more fatiguing during long listening sessions.  I've heard some speakers from other manufacturers who tried BE and I was not impressed.  Then I heard the SS9.5 with McGary amplification at Axpona 2019 and was absolutely blown away.  Do BE tweeters prefer tube amps?

So what to do?  So many wonderful options to explore!

Thanks for your input.

[Ballen]

Thanks for all the feedback.  It sounds like I really can't go wrong with any of variations in this series.

One thing that initially turned me onto the Song 3's is the 3-way design.  I've had 3-ways in the past, but nothing of significant quality.  I originally discounted the 3-A's as I've read how  unforgiving they can be of bad recordings, but I'm not sure that's much different than the HT2-TL's and Ascends I own.  I think I'm ok with that - I'd prefer to hear that detail, because I know how good it can sound with the right recordings.

I think I'm narrowing down my decision to the Beats and 3A's.  Given that the tweeters are considered a push, any feedback on the mids in these two?

Thanks again.

Brian

DWG - I'm looking to upgrade for the same reason and considered the 2-EX upgrade kits, but think I'd prefer a tower in the room, especially one as unique and beautiful as the Salks.

[birbygdad]

Hey, I've had my "base line" (a misnomer in this case) Song 3s for a while now and it has been a great experience. Music sounds terrific through them. Which ever variant you decide to buy, once you get them home and set up you'll be happy. The speakers just do what needs to be done! Have fun. 

[Barrelfish]

I think I'm narrowing down my decision to the Beats and 3A's.  Given that the tweeters are considered a push, any feedback on the mids in these two?

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161281.0

In the above thread, Jim said the following about the Song series:

"Let's rank them with regard to a few variables:

High-frequency treble performance - all Song3 models are pretty much the same in this regard.

Low frequency bass performance - Song3 Encores play deeper, all others the same.

Midrange performance - this is where most of the differences are.  In order of detail...

Song3-A
Song3 Encore
Song 3
Song3 BeAT (very close to Song3)

In order of "smoothness" and "warmth":

Song3 BeAT
Song3
Song3 Encore
Song3-A"

I assume what he said still holds true today.  If not, perhaps he'll chime in with a new perspective.

If you are looking at a center channel, that might influence your choice in towers as well. 

[Ballen]

Exactly what I was looking for.  Appreciate it.

[thebrieze]

I’m using the Song3 BeAT’s with a SCST center (Raal tweeter). Jim suggested the combination and said the mismatch wouldn’t be an issue. I have to agree. My front stage is very seamless. I haven’t tried to do a specific comparison, but I don’t know if I would notice a difference between the tweeters.

I do however feel the BeAT’s are maybe a little too forgiving (such a polite word 🙂) I miss the attack and decay on strings etc. - especially on recordings with clear separation between instruments, that I had with my previous speakers (Av123 Ref 1’s with Vifa ring tweeter and Atohm woofer). Overall though, the voicing and soundstage Of the BeATs is excellent- the drivers and speakers completely disappear and the music just floats in the air (where it should be).

Sure enough when I looked at the Impulse graphs in Dirac, the Ref 1’s had an exceptionally good impulse response. The Beats had a secondary spike, and a longer decay time. I’m not experienced enough to know where the “normal” Should be.