[Roc]

I've heard that speaker wires should never be placed directly on carpets.
I presume they distort the sound and zap the bass energy.

My questions to you experts:

1.  What carpet materials are to be avoided?

Nylon?  Cotton?  Olefin?  Wool?  
How about polyurethane foams?

2.  Can I place an amp or other device directly on carpet?
3.  Is carpet under an amp ever a good idea?  Perhaps for vib control?

4.  Should I keep all wires (power, interconnect) away from carpet?

Thanks for your help.

Dave

[warnerwh]

If there's any loss of bass energy from my Supertower/R SE's I can not hear it and my speaker wire just lays on the floor and it's carpeted.  I seriously doubt there's any amount of lost energy from speaker wire being on the floor.
You do not want to place an amplifier on carpeting.  It needs the clearance underneath to allow cool air to circulate.  If you want to put some sorbothane feet under the amp feet then do it but don't set your amp on carpeting.

[ScottMayo]

I've heard that speaker wires should never be placed directly on carpets.
I presume they distort the sound and zap the bass energy....
Dave

About the only possible justification I can imagine for keeping speaker wires off carpets is static electricity in winter, and there would have to be a heck of a lot of it to get through speaker insulation and into the wires. I've run speaker cable over carpet, wood and slate; it makes no difference whatsoever.

Which isn't to say some people won't try to sell you speaker wire supports to keep your speaker wires suspended 6" in the air.

[BrunoB]

...
Which isn't to say some people won't try to sell you speaker wire supports to keep your speaker wires suspended 6" in the air.

Has anyone tried cable elevators?

http://www.audiotweaks.com/reviews/cblelevators/page01.htm

[Roc]

Guys,

I already use cable elevators and THEY DO WORK.
To be absolutley sure, before writing about it, I did some comparative listening again last evening.

My setup:  Stereo rack is beside my left shoulder, not between the speakers.  Speaker wires are 20' long and 12' touches the carpet.  Wires are Audioquest CV6 with dbs.  I'm bi-wiring from the amps to the speakers (RM2's).

With the elevators removed the sound had a distinctly warmer tone.  This is clear evidence that something changed.  I noticed the bass was a bit less controlled/looser but just as powerful.  I also noticed the very top end was a bit muddy/confused resulting is less detail/definition.  The feeling of being in the concert hall was diminished.  Perhaps a non audiophile would not hear the changes (in my room) but you guys would.

The reason I started this thread is that I will be getting new carpet in the near future and want to get something that won't require cable elevators, if such exists.

My second motivation is that my Ampzilla's and my Sony SCD-1 hum, which is clearly audible, having the listening position so close to the stereo rack.  So I want to place the new carpet on the stereo rack shelves to damp the hum.  No hum comes thru the speakers.

James Bongiorno was the person who recommended puting the amps on carpet, as a means of vibration control, but I guess I wanted a second opinion.

So now you see my challenges and hopefully some good solutions will come out of these discussions.  Maybe not, but it was worth trying.


Dave

[ctviggen]

I just ordered some cable elevators.  I'll be interested in seeing if I can tell any difference.

[ScottMayo]

Guys,

I already use cable elevators and THEY DO WORK.

If you are using quality speaker cable and you can hear a difference between cable on carpet vs. cable suspended (I mean in a blind comparison, with a friend randomly moving the cables between tests), then raise hell with your cable manufacturer. Something would have to be seriously wrong with the copper they use, if there is a measurable (let alone audible) difference when the speaker cable is moved a few inches off the floor. Unless maybe your floor is a plate of steel or something.

One thing to look at is shorter speaker wire (ie, move your components). Short wire means a tiny bit less resistance, which can make a difference, especially at extreme frequencies, with some speakers and amps.

[dfolson]

The various carpet materials can have a large or small dielectric coeficient and act as a capacitor of sorts in conjunction with the cables to alter signals running through the cable.  The frequencies affected would be dependant on the guage, material, geometry, length. etc... of the transmission line (read speaker cables)

Elevators would increase the air gap and reduce this effect.

The longer the cables, the more pronounced the effect.

Humming transformers indicate possible DC on the AC power line.

- no emperical proof, but certainly explainable with modern physics and EM theory.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;system=450

[Andrikos]

I presume they distort the sound and zap the bass energy.



Dave

You're kidding, right?

[ctviggen]

I bought the elevators because I want to move the speaker wires away from the slew of other wires behind my RPTV/stand.  I think distancing the wires from parallel-running wires should help somewhat (whether that amount is enough to hear a difference, I don't know, but these aren't expensive, so what the heck).

[Roc]

dfolson,

I started using cable elevators about a year ago, after hearing the dielectric argument you just made.

The second arguement that prompted me was that vibrations can come thru the carpet and effect the sound quality.  

I had already experienced the sonic improvements made with component vibration isolation, so this made sense to me.

The elevators were supposed to help with both.

I don't know which is the true culprit but the elevators make my system sound a bit better.  So why not use them!  I made mine for free.  

Do you know of a carpet material that does not exhibit a dielectric effect?

Dave

[Roc]

Well I'm about to burst my own bubble,

I wrote to Audioquest (speaker wires I'm using) and asked two pointed questions:

1.  Can carpet material effect sound quality if the speaker wires are laid on it.  
Response:  NO.

2.  Can vibrations coming thru the carpet effect sound quality if speaker wires are laid on it.
Response:  NO.

Still, I know what I heard.  Perhaps I'm just getting old.

[dfolson]

Interesting...  

It makes me wonder when you read through their sales literature....

Trust your ears ! (Psychosomatic or not!)


David
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;system=450

[ScottMayo]

Trust your ears ! (Psychosomatic or not!)

...If you can conduct rigorous double-blind tests, that is. Because if your brain knows what you're testing, it's not going to listen to your ears.

I'd challange any golden ear to pick out, even 8 times out of 10, when speaker wire was on the floor and when it was 6" up, if they had no way of knowing what was in use each trial.

But I *can* sell you some clothes which will, I promise, improve your listening experience. They eliminate the sympathetic vibration that occurs in man-made and even natural materials, which invariably promotes a subtle distortion of the midrange, and saps bass. The clothing is extremely lightweight - you'll barely feel anything - and for a mere $40,000 you'll hear things you ever heard before. I call them Special Uberlight Corrected Kinetics Emperor 's Request outfit.

Don't wear them in public, though. You'll hear far too much.

*innocentGrin*