What music cdr are you using?

transam · « **on:** 10 Feb 2003, 02:26 am »

I'm getting the new Yamaha cdrhd1300.What's the best cdr and where can i find them?
Thanks for your help.

tmd · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 11:53 am »

Check out the post here about copies being better than originals. The information suggests black media is best.

randytsuch · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 06:50 pm »

But you cannot get black music CDR's.
For music CDR's the Mitsui's are supposed to be good.

Randy

bubba966 · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 07:57 pm »

I've had great luck with TDK Certified Plus blanks. Makes sure they're Certified Plus and not regular TDK's if you're going to pick any of them up. The Certified Plus blanks are made in Japan, where the regular TDK's are made in Taiwan and aren't up to the quality level of their Japanese blanks.

jcoat007 · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 08:45 pm »

I agree with TMD. Check out this thread. I found it very interesting.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=1342&highlight=

Tyson · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 10:39 pm »

Best media or best recorder?

transam · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 11:22 pm »

Well i was talking about cdr discs.Now that you brought it up would a computer burner be better?I've read that the yamaha 1300 burns deeper groves for better play back.

ehider · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 12:41 am »

Mitsui, Mitsui, Mitsui, Mitsui....there is nothing better in the entire world IMHO or in the library of congress' opinion either (they use Mitsui exclusively to archive everything. Of course the choice to use Mitsui was only after a tax funded scientific study of all cd-r offerings) Also many high end mastering studios and digital engineers swear by Mitsui too. Did you know that Mitsui has more esoteric patents on their manufacturing and their proprietary "digital goo" inside the CD-R as compared all other CD-R manufacturers? Enough said?

Jay S · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 01:18 am »

About how much are Mitsui's compared to more mainstream brands like TDK, Memorex, etc?

I'm planning on getting a cd burner which I'll connect to my laptop and use for both creating better music CDs and archiving data.

ehider · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 04:46 am »

Oh, the price. Well I have some very bad news. Mitsui blanks are a whole 30% more expensive than the el-cheapo blanks. Around $1.15 ea as compared to .80 or less for the cheapos. The surprising part is that I actually know audiophiles who won't spend the extra dough for the good Mitsui disks! That whole 30% more must have something to do with it. Actually, they do have some good logic here. If they buy the cheap blanks, over a lifetime they would save something like $12 and then could afford to buy one entire new cd with all those saved pennies!

randog · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 07:07 am »

After doing a lot of searching and even emailing the author of the whitepaper mentioned in the other thread, I haven't been able to find anything mentioned about black cd's being any different save for the black scratch resistant coating. (There is some mention about black cd's designed for playstations which have a difficult time reading standard cd's, etc) Besides, that whitepaper on the black cd's is a little too black and white for me (heh) hinting that the black cd's are better but without regard to differences amongst brands, etc.

I also find it perplexing that there's so little information available about the differences between cd brands... I mean, hell, we've already outlined our experiences good and bad between brands (mainly on the other thread), yet nobody who gets paid to review audio equipment seems too interested in the quality of the source.

In that regard, I'm with ehider. What's that old saying about the baby and the bathwater???

CD's are cheap compared to other formats of days gone by. I don't mind spending a little extra for the best. Mitsui definitely sounds interesting, but even still their lineup has me confused. Which to try? Silver, Gold, Gold Audio, Silver Audio, etc. What are the differences? Am I too dumb for these manufacturers to give me a shot at an explanation?

Then there's the burner. I'm fortunate to find that my Yamaha CRW2200E has a firmware upgrade for their Audio Master Quality Recording as does Nero with software, but just try and find any explanation from either Yamaha or Nero explaining exactly what it does differently. So far, I'm guessing the burn speed to be about 4X, but who knows. And, if I'm going to this much trouble to create a copy of my existing cd library (hundreds of cd's), would it behoove me to take the drive out of the noisy cpu chassis and isolate it or put a brick on it? It's certainly not too much trouble, but my point is that trying to find logical information regarding optimal cd burning is weak... certainly when compared to discussions of high-end audio componentry and all the nuances there.

Maybe one of youz out there can enlighten me a bit!

Randog

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 08:55 am »

I've never seen that brand for sale, where can they be purchased? Must be some online store. I agree CD-Rs are so cheap that an extra 20 cents or so wouldn't be any big deal.

In what way are they supposed to be better? Do they last longer? Are they more durable? Are they reputed to sound better? Given the $500 hammers and $900 toilet seats, the mere fact that the govt buys 'em doesn't much impress me.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 09:05 am »

Never mind, found 'em online!

ehider · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 02:54 pm »

Mitsui are typically sold to the professional market. You will find them online and can even buy cases directly from the factory. If you are using a computer burner go with the gold no label blanks. (Mitsui does not offer gold for stand alone consumer audio burners only computer burners).

Mitsuis claim to fame is their proprietary ink ("goo") that changes states and holds data better than their competitors "goo". As the laser hits a cd-r it "burns" or changes the properties of the this ink to make 1s and 0s for the digital data. If it changes more readily, is more consistent and less likely to lose its state of change it will be a better copy of the original source. I have done a triple blind comparison of all big name cd-rs and the Mitsui blanks definately sounded the best. More air, more depth, more relaxed. All high end charactaristics that we typically all strive for with massive amounts of money on ultra expensive cables and the like....all for .30 more!

As for getting the best recording on computer burners this is what I've been told: use the native speed to record i.e. if the burner is a 4x burner that can go to other speeds always choose the 4x speed. If it is a 16x burner use 16 x. In terms of getting better sounding burns than the original you must re-rip the data at least once, twice preferably to remove the inherent jitter from the original cd recording. I myself have no idea how to do a burn the computer way and based on what I've seen it can be quite a hassle.

Again, all of this computer way stuff: Use a particular burner (I've been told a high end Plextor), make sure you are not running any programs, have a stable clean power supply without noise, re-rip your data twice via a re-rip program, hassle, hassle, hassle ...can be avoided if you just go out and spend a couple hundred on a stand alone Pioneer PDRw739 audio burner. It does a perfect burn creating better sounding than original recordings in a one button, takes all of three secconds to start burning sequence.

One question for all audiophiles reading this thread: If you haven't bought a great burner (like the Pioneer 739) that can actually make superior sounding recordings than your original cds, THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY ON EQUIPMENT AND CABLES WHEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY IMPROVE YOUR SOURCE MATERIAL!

Jay S · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 03:29 pm »

Eric,

If I get a standalone burner (not a computer CD rom), which Mitsuis should be used? Presumably the gold no label blanks only work on cd roms?

Thanks!

- Jay

randog · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 03:44 pm »

I just re-read my post this morning and boy does it sound a bit like whining. I guess I'm getting lazy and looking to thumb a ride on the information highway a little too often. It's time to take the bull by the horns and do a little experimentation...

This hobby is filled with engineers whose very nature is to disregard anything that can't be proven with X's and O's (or 0's and 1's!) yet being a good listener requires an open mind and until all ears are cast out of the same polymer from the same mold, is very subjective. I applaud those who search for the own audio holy grail through experimentation and hard listening and

all engineers who argue against it strictly from the textbook arena. Playing music is an artform... good listening should be as well.

Does anyone know why cd-r manufacturers have media listed as for audio and what makes them different from data cd's? Mitsui claims their audio cd's to be warmer. How do they accomplish that? ehider (sorry I only know you as that since you don't autograph your posts), why would you want to use a gold data cd with a computer rather than one designed for audio? Also, do you have any idea why the Pioneer you mention does such a good job burning? The Yamaha AMQR spreads the data over a greater distance on the cd (per Yamaha) Nothing is mentioned about burn rate or depth. Perhaps the Pioneer makes a deeper burn since it copies so slow? It would be interesting to see how these devices take their approaches to better recording. Yamaha finally sees interest in the market and is approaching it from an engineering standpoint using the defacto standard as something to improve upon, yet the interesting thing about the Pioneer may be that they just got lucky and did something terribly right which even they may not have a handle on. It happens once in awhile and it's a pretty cool thing when it does... star alignment and all that jazz.

Randog

randog · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Mar 2003, 06:33 pm »

Ok, here's a fascinating page I surfed upon:

http://www.mscience.com/index.html

Although not specific to audio, there's vast info here especially in the faq. Summary: huge differences and no common denominator (color, brand, etc). Check out the faq regarding audio cd-r.

Randog

randog · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Mar 2003, 10:01 pm »

Well, further research explained to me what the difference between standard and audio cd-r's are. For those who don't know, audio cd-r's have a copy protection scheme called Serial Copy Management System (SCMS) which doesn't allow a copy from a copy.

But you already knew that didn't you?

Randog