Digital Receivers

daman · « **on:** 11 Dec 2004, 11:18 am »

Ok I'm thinking of trying out a digital receiver. What's the best one out right now? I want to use it as a stock unit no mods. I was thinking of going to seperates but thought I would try this route first.
Later, Daman

geneylim · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Dec 2004, 03:28 pm »

For two channel analog, the JVC. For home theater, the Panny xr70.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Dec 2004, 04:15 pm »

can you share a little more about your system, so that we can help you more? Speakers you are using? 2 channel vs HT percentage of use? Do you own a DAC or are you using a DVD player or cd player?

Thanks,

cryotweaks · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Dec 2004, 05:56 pm »

Initial impressions of my Sony ES digitally amplified receiver are very good. The Sony with a modded Toshiba 3950 beat my Parasound Halo/Denon 5900 right out of the box. I will post more on this later.

daman · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 03:23 am »

Thanks guys!!
I mostly Hometeater around 75% to 25%. My speakers are Rockets 550 MKII, RSC200 & 250's rears. The DVD player I'm currently using is a Panny XP50. I'm driving them now with a Denon 3802. I own no DAC.

Are these receivers really that good? Specially at such a low price. So they really do compare to a good set of seperates (WOW)!! Is there a good B&M to check these out?

Later, Daman

jpsartre · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 03:48 am »

Even though I haven't tried any of these receivers yet, I have a feeling that *if* a cheap digital receiver performs in par with a set of separates, it can only do so with very efficient speakers. I very much doubt a digital receiver can properly drive a demanding speaker (e.g. ribbons). Mind you I am very sold on digital amplification - I am using a Spectron Musician II - but there's only so much punch you can pack in a $500 receiver. Again though, this is purely a gut feeling since I haven't listened to any of the digital recevers!

In any event, if you are building a multi-channel system on a budget, be it for HT or music, a digital receiver seems more and more appealing.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 04:47 am »

There are some fellows here with their digital receivers powering magnepans with good results.

I certainly wouldn't expect these amps to drive any standard point source speakers of 85dB sensitivity or less to very loud levels without compressing.

Of course this depends on the size of room too.

The nice thing about line array ribbons is that their output doesn't fall off as quickly as point source speakers. Point source speakers fall off 6dB with every doubling of distance and line arrays fall off 3dB with every doubling of distance.

For example, a pair of Magnepan 1.6's are rated at 86dB 1watt/1meter. Since they are line arrays; with a 1 watt input at 2 meters they are equal to a point source that is 89db at 1 meter. At 4meters, they are equal to a point source that is 92dB at 1watt/1meter.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most ribbon speakers present a very nice resistive load to the amp. Meaning they are a stable, flat 4ohms. The trick would be to raise that impedance to above the 6ohm minimum for these amps so they aren't being asked to deliver more current then their power supplies can handle.

Which is why a group of us are working on getting some autoformers that double the impedance of the speakers we have so the amp has a "lighter load". This should help drive magnepans and other ribbons much better b/c raising the impedance the amp sees also helps increase the damping factor and therefore the control of the ribbons themselves. (someone step in here with more knowledge to correct any falicies I might be propegating).

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 04:49 am »

Quote

I certainly wouldn't expect these amps to drive any standard point source speakers of 85dB sensitivity or less to very loud levels without compressing.

My mbow1 are about 85db sensitive. They go plenty loud, though not loud enough to make my ears bleed without compressing.

daman · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 11:54 am »

So my question is now, when all the dust settles will a digital Panny out perform my Denon 3802?
Daman

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 06:07 pm »

I had the good fortune of extended in-home auditions of three amps/receivers recently, plus my own receiver. Using an older Sony ES CD player and my single driver speakers (90 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, 25 - 20,000 Hz) in my 11 ft x 19 ft x 8 ft living room, here's the results (YMMV):

1. $1500 Decware Torii integrated tube amp, 12 wpc, erratic break in, failed 20 - 50 Hz warble tests, but the best overall sound (fast, quiet, musical, good imaging, not warm tube midrange). Bass was exagerated, but would probably do very well with horn loading or speakers with less bass output. Build quality is exceptional and comes with a lifetime warrantee.

2. $500 (estimated) DIY integrated chip amp, did well on the warble test, lots of 60 Hz hum from the separate power supply, terrible bleed in of 94.9 FM (no problems before, even with cheap receivers), but very promising sound (clear and dynamic with much of the positive traits of the Decware). Check out Channel Island Audio here at the circles or Scott Nixon. BTW Dan Wright thinks highly of Channel Island stuff and it's maker, but Scott's stuff is cheaper.

3. $200 JVC RX-ES1SL 5.1 100 wpc receiver, did O.K. on the warble test, tries to provide the best of tubes and solid state, and is stupid good for the money. You could easily spend over $1000 and not do as well from a sound quality perspective. Build quality and spring clips for speaker connections however is another story. It has all the features you'd expect including remote that the two above don't have. Wayne at Boulder Cable here at the circle offers mods, but the mods can cost more than the receiver.

4. My $700 100 wpc Rotel stereo receiver thats 6 years old, did the best on the warble test, but compared to the thoroughbreds above is a plow horse when it comes to sound quality.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 07:25 pm »

Thanks for the extra info daman, and I think that the responses so far should prove useful for you.

Here is my take - your speakers are mid-sensitivity, and a friendly 6 ohm load, from the AV123 website, so just about any of the digital receivers should give you a sense of the sound they produce.

I see that you use a Panasonic source, so the Panny 50 might be the obvious choice for remote operation and simplicity - I would run a coax digital out from the dvd player, into the Panny receiver, and let it go from there.

In Canada, the Panny's are in both Futureshop and Best Buy, so you might check those out, to see if they are carried in your area.

The last piece of info that might help, is - are you finding anything lacking in the sound with your Denon receiver right now?

Thanks, and good luck,

daman · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Dec 2004, 01:45 am »

Well I am happy with my Denon. I just hear all this talk of seperates being so much better. So I decided I would go to seperates, when I ran across this forum. Everyone claiming these are just as good sounding as a set of seperates. Alot cheaper to go this route!
Later, Daman