Digital Receiver Question

gongos · « **on:** 18 Nov 2004, 05:07 am »

I see a lot of members talking about the JVC and Panasonic digital receivers. Has anyone tried the Harmon Kardon digital receivers like DPR 2005? If so, any thoughts or mods done to them? It seems like they have much better build quality.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Nov 2004, 07:23 am »

Well I think the hubbub is because the JVC and Panny and even this http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/redirectFeature.jsp?goToUrl=product.jsp%3FproductId%3D2607">Kenwood are budget receivers down around $300 street price.

That HK DPR2005 is $1800 retail so it's not the bargain these other amps are.

However, there is much more room on the back so you can put better posts for ALL channels, of which you get seven! I don't know what to do with 7-channels?!?! What is also nice is the extra coax digital inputs(and coax out), and IEC power inlet. This lets you switch to a better powercord right away which is what these digital amps need.

What is also interesting is that the lower model, the DPR1005, is rated for 70watts while its bigger brother is rated for 120watts...yet they both weigh 23.1lbs according to the HK website specs.

gongos · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Nov 2004, 07:32 am »

Plus you can buy them for much less than retail. The 2005 id under $1000 and the 1005 is well under $800. I just want to know if anyone taken a good look and listen to them because the quality seems to be top notch. I've looked at the Panasonics and, regardless of SQ, they're pretty flimsy, but the HK's are solid as a rock.

gongos · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Nov 2004, 09:23 pm »

I was looking at the HK's because people are pumping $700 into the Panny so that it's not much of a buget amp anymore, and the HK's address 2 of the major problems the low end digital receivers have-problems that require mods. You can use an aftermarket power cord right out of the box, and its power supplies are far superior.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 03:22 am »

No firsthand experience with the HK, I'm afraid. But the only comments I've heard from people who've tried it is that it's a peice of junk, really crappy sounding.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 03:36 am »

gongos,

Tag! You're it! I guess you have to be the one to break down here on Audiocircle to go get one for testing.

I might go "rent" one to see how it stacks up to my regular old XR45.

They certainly look top notch and the weight would seem to indicate a significant increase in power supply parts but wouldn't necessarily mean higher quality. We're still talking about mass production units. I would hope for 3x the cost of the Panny that it does in fact have better power supply parts.

damnit gongos...now you have got me thinking...thinking is bad.

It sure does look purty...

gongos · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 04:06 am »

I'm positive the power supply is much better, I know the binding posts are superior, and HK's are known for delivering much more power than they're rated, especially when compared against other like models. I believe each channel has its own power supply. The HK will blow the Panny away in terms of shear power. HK's ratings are underrated with all channels driven. I was thinking about buying one of the Panny's, but when you add the mods that need to be done to address the power issues, spending a couple hundred more on the HK doesn't seem that crazy.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 04:56 am »

Quote from: gongos

I'm positive the power supply is much better, I know the binding posts are superior, and HK's are known for delivering much more power than they're rated, especially when compared against other like models. I believe each channel has its own power supply. The HK will blow the Panny away in terms of shear power. HK's ratings are underrated with all channels driven. I was thinking about buying one of the Panny's, but when you add the mods that need to be done to address the power issues, spending a couple hundred more on the HK doesn't seem that crazy.

You do have some good points but the mods for the Panny are not for power issues. You can't increase the power output of the unit from it's stock form. You can however, increase the reserves in the power supply so it doesn't poop out on transients.

I just wonder, would the HK need the some minor upgrades to improve the sound quality?

I repeat: damnit gongos...you've got me thinking!

So...are you going to go out and pick one up? I'm considering heading over to the Circuit City here locally and borrowing one to compare with my XR45.

gongos · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 06:21 am »

If you have a 45, I'd love to hear how you think the HK compares. I don't have a Panny to compare the HK to, but was thinking of loaning one from my local Circuit City. Since you can do a direct comparison, you might save me some trouble.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 07:58 am »

Quote from: gongos

If you have a 45, I'd love to hear how you think the HK compares. I don't have a Panny to compare the HK to, but was thinking of loaning one from my local Circuit City. Since you can do a direct comparison, you might save me some trouble.

Yes. I will drop by my local Circuit City tomorrow to see if they can let me have a "loaner" for a week or so. I don't see why not.

It will be a fun comparison and should prove to be very helpful for others as well.

gongos · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 08:34 am »

Quote from: heavystarch

Yes. I will drop by my local Circuit City tomorrow to see if they can let me have a "loaner" for a week or so. I don't see why not.

I can assume the "loaner" bit is a joke, since they have a 30 return policy. Hell, keep it for 29 days just for the heck of it. Let it get nice and burned in.

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 09:46 am »

A 29 day "loan" should be sufficient for break-in.

What kind of discounts does CC offer on these? ($1800 is still almost double what a modded Panny/JVC would be.) If all you need is two channel performance, $1800 gets you into some stiff competition.

I own a factory reconditioned 70 wpc stereo HK receiver that I bought a couple of years back for my pudgy little 2.1 HT system (paid $160 delivered). It is heavy, controls on the front are chessy, but a casual comparison to my $700 Rotel was very favorable, in fact the tuner is better.

gongos · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Nov 2004, 09:59 am »

Online you can buy the 2005 for under $1000. About the same price as a modded Panny. Circuit City probably doesn't offer any discount, but if you return it before 30 days you get a full refund so if you only want to test it the price doesn't really matter.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Nov 2004, 08:03 am »

sadly, the local CircuitCity didn't have any of the digital HK DPR models in the store and it looks like there aren't any available http://www.circuitcity.com/rpsm/catOid/-12949/N/20012898+20012949+40001077/link/ref/rpem/ccd/categorylist.do">online either.

The mods for an XR45 can cost between $700-$1200 if you pay someone else to do it for you. If you have time and a soldering iron, the mods won't be more than a couple hundred bucks unless you go wild on the binding posts you buy. I'm just getting the new Eichmann POD's for mine if and when I mod it (I am a dealer for Eichmann so I get them cheap for me

).

Thing is, that DPR2005 is only $999 at JandR.com and that is awful tempting...

gongos · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Nov 2004, 09:50 am »

Do it, do it, do it.....

dave_c · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Nov 2004, 11:04 am »

Any idea what chipset the HK is based on?

Spoonfed · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 Nov 2004, 04:51 am »

DPR2005 uses the D2Audio digital amp techonology/module.

IT has LOADS of grunt, but is not as transparent or resolving as the panny. It does have good dynamics and attack.

Panny is better be it less powerful. (comparo's are XR45 based)

Few threads on AVS where people have compared the two also.

Passive Chappy · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Nov 2004, 07:26 pm »

In the November Hi-Fi News supplement AV Tech there is a very favorable review of this piece.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Nov 2004, 09:44 pm »

I read those threads on the AVS forum about the head-to-head comparo between the XR45 and DPR2005. Even though Earz said he preferred the XR45, I would still be interested in hearing the DPR2005. I wonder if it wouldn't be more fair to mod the XR45 like http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=13996">hanguy and then compare them. That would put them at the same price point roughly. The bad thing is, I like that the HK unit looks better and has much more room on the back pannel for upgrading ALL the posts much more easily than it is on the Panny. Maybe I will built a custom case for my panny. Geez, I need to focus.

Thing is, I won't be modding the XR45 anytime soon because I am doing the flooring in our new house which will take up my free time.

Reading about hanguy's (mike's) mods, it sounds like I can really boost the performance of the XR45 for a little money (and a bit of work). He sent me an email stating that the biggest chunk of money was spent on Binding posts and the Jensen 4-pole cap.

So if I can do that mod for a few hundred bucks and few hours why not? I've got the service manual which was $10 from Panasonic so I'm all set. Now it's time to learn to solder

.

Spoonfed · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Nov 2004, 06:32 am »

passive,

i'll have to see if i can find that locally, knew they where doing one on it....

Yes panny + little bit of time and a few $'s definately good value.