Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?

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StereoNut

Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« on: 18 Oct 2015, 01:48 pm »
I know there are other threads on phono stages, but my budget (luckily) is a little higher.  I have a VPI Prime turntable with a Dynavector DV20x2H high output MC cartridge.  My current phono stage is a Soundsmith MMP3.  I am considering an upgrade to the MMP3.  I would buy new or used (obviously, used will get me a better unit for the same or less $) SS or tube (although I hear that you have to spend a lot to get a QUIET tube phono stage.)

With all of that being said, the big question for me is... "Will my $1,000'ish budget buy me something substantially better than the MMP3 I have?

Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

SN

bacobits1

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #1 on: 18 Oct 2015, 02:30 pm »
The problem is ya never know unless you try something else. Always a tough call as stated in another thread here.
That's why there are so many used units out there. Take your pick in $$ and choice.
I don't think there is anything terrible out there and I'm sure Peter knows what he's doing with the MMP3 offering.

audio.bill

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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #2 on: 18 Oct 2015, 04:19 pm »
I see that the MMP3 only supports MM cartridges (or high output MCs.) If you get a new phono stage I would suggest getting one that supports low output MCs. They are generally superior sounding cartridge designs, and then when the time comes to replace your HO cartridge you'd have some better options. For example it is generally agreed upon that the low output version of the DV20X cart sounds much better than the high output version you now have at the same price. You would of course then need a phono stage with enough gain to support low output carts.

bacobits1


Folsom

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #4 on: 18 Oct 2015, 05:26 pm »
If you don't have a Herbies mat, get that first.

roscoeiii

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #5 on: 18 Oct 2015, 05:59 pm »
I really  liked the Avid that I had. There is a one box unit that is around your price point. Or the two box Pulsus can be found for close to $1k used.


jsaliga

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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #6 on: 18 Oct 2015, 08:25 pm »
I know there are other threads on phono stages, but my budget (luckily) is a little higher.  I have a VPI Prime turntable with a Dynavector DV20x2H high output MC cartridge.  My current phono stage is a Soundsmith MMP3.  I am considering an upgrade to the MMP3.  I would buy new or used (obviously, used will get me a better unit for the same or less $) SS or tube (although I hear that you have to spend a lot to get a QUIET tube phono stage.)

With all of that being said, the big question for me is... "Will my $1,000'ish budget buy me something substantially better than the MMP3 I have?

Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

SN

I never had good experiences with tube phono preamps that can support both MM and MC, and I have owned a few pretty expensive choices that are well above your budget.  But YMMV, and performance will depend greatly on the implementation.  Beware of tube phono preamps that use tube gain only for MCs, as it can be very difficult (impossible, in my experience) to squeeze 60DB+ of gain out of tubes and not have noise injected into the signal path.

If you are using relatively low output moving coil cartridges (say, .5mv or less) and don't have a step up transformer then I would suggest you forget about tube phono stages and stick with solid state.

If you are considering a change a good place to start is to identify what it is about your current phono preamp that you find could do with some improvement.  Spending $$ on the random chance that it might sound better because it cost more may lead to disappointment.  It also helps if you can find a few reasons other than sonics to make a change to help justify the expense.  For example, if your current phono preamp lacks adjustable gain and loading options then buying one that does may lead to better sound if part of the problem with your current rig is that you cannot optimally load your cartridge.

Just some food for thought. 

If you are wondering what I use, I have a pair of iFi Audio iPhono units at a cost of about $425 each and IMO they perform way above their price point.  They have adjustable gain and loading, and a few different EQ curves to chose from in addition to a subsonic filter you can switch in or out.

--Jerome

roscoeiii

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #7 on: 18 Oct 2015, 08:31 pm »
A pair? No desire for variety for your different systems? That speaks to really liking them!


findog3103


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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #9 on: 19 Oct 2015, 03:13 am »
I have the Cornet3 and Piccolo2 and love them. I don't think I could improve without spending lots of coin.

http://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/phono-preamps/products/cornet3

http://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/phono-preamps/products/piccolo2-mc-preamp

Hagerman has some great phon preamps.  I started with his original Bugle kit which is opamp based. It got me playing lots of records for the first time in many years.  And it gave me an itch to see how well vinyl based sound reproduction could be.

I got his Cornet2 kit and built it pretty much straight, just substituting in Auricaps where suggested. I also quickly upgraded to NOS tubes, rectifier, 12au7 and 12ax7. That took it to another plane.  It is a wonderful sounding component. I rarely listen to digital sources any more

xxmartinxx

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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #10 on: 19 Oct 2015, 07:11 pm »
With all of that being said, the big question for me is... "Will my $1,000'ish budget buy me something substantially better than the MMP3 I have?

Is there something you don't currently like about the sound? 

rollo

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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #11 on: 19 Oct 2015, 07:31 pm »
  Talk to Mark from our club about his  Miracle audio  phono preamp. You will be hard pressed to find a better one. Ask mark or Jason to bring one over.

charles

StereoNut

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #12 on: 20 Oct 2015, 04:50 pm »
Is there something you don't currently like about the sound?

No.  Just the usual upgrade-otis!  LOL

SN

StereoNut

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #13 on: 20 Oct 2015, 04:51 pm »
  Talk to Mark from our club about his  Miracle audio  phono preamp. You will be hard pressed to find a better one. Ask mark or Jason to bring one over.

charles

Charles, I know that Mark's unit sounds great, but it's waaaaaay out of my budget. :roll:

SN

Flyin_V

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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #14 on: 21 Oct 2015, 08:19 am »
I too am looking to upgrade my phono stage. Anyone have any experience with either of these guys? One is available as a kit for some savings and they are MC upgradeable with transformers. The prices seem reasonable.

http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20tube%20phono%20stage.html

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/PH16.htm

Good listening.

Lary

louie3

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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #15 on: 21 Oct 2015, 12:44 pm »
Yes, Flyin V....I have the Don Sachs version of the PH 16.   Been in my system about two weeks and it is a significant upgrade in all respects to the other phono stages I have had.

I thought I had found my end all phono stage when I found a Precision Fidelity C7 which I used as both a preamp and as a standalone phono section through the tape outs.

The Don Sachs PH 16 blew it completely into the weeds.   Quieter, more dynamic, more detailed, better soundspace...you name it

At Don's price I suspect you would have to spend three times the money to get any improvement and maybe not even then.

It is a keeper and Don is great to work with.   He will build you anything you want.

Flyin_V

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Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #16 on: 25 Oct 2015, 06:17 am »
louie3, the Sachs PH16 sounds like it is killer and @ $1k seems like it's worth it. Going on my short list.

Thanks.

Minn Mark

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #17 on: 25 Oct 2015, 12:51 pm »
Highly recommended:

http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=179&Itemid=237


AVA Vision MM/MC phono preamp. 

Mark

orientalexpress

Re: Phono Stage Upgrade... How much do I have to spend?
« Reply #18 on: 25 Oct 2015, 02:13 pm »
if u into DIY try this http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/129126-simplistic-njfet-riaa-1497.html#post4493484
one of the best phono stage i ever heard. :thumb: