[Paul McNeil]

I'm a new maggie owner, 1.7 and 3.6, which I use respectively for stereo in living room and center channel in home theater.

Magnepan, in their instruction manuals (for both and all speakers), states that 1) tow IN is optimal (it's in only FIGURE); 2) that tweeters can be placed inside (nearest the center of the pair) OR on the outside of the pair (to increase 'sweet spot'); and 3) that the tweeters should be the furtherest removed panel element from the listener.

This is CONTRADICTORY, if the tweeters are on the outside edge (which I agree increases soundstage 'sweet spot'). In that case, to satisfy '3' the speakers should be towed OUT.

Am I missing something? I've tried the tow OUT solution (not mentioned in the manual) and it's very a very effective solution for a center channel: increassing 'sweet spot' and resolution (see http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88468.msg1472308#msg1472308).

Anyone else have thoughts about this, including you Magnepan employees?

[John Casler]

In "general" if the speakers are placed on an ARC (semicircle) the drivers are more or less equidistant from your ears.

While this will depend on the degree of toe in, and whether or not you maintain alignment with the curvature/angle of the arc.

It will also depend on the actual distance from your ears, which then changes the size of the ARC (semicircle).

So of course since the panels themselves are not curved, there will be very small differences in distances to your ears.

[Paul McNeil]

Are you talking about unipolar or bipolar, BIG difference!

[Letitroll98]

They're saying that if the toe in is small, tweeters on the outside.  With a large angle of toe in, tweeters on the inside.  There is some disagreement with this.

There are numerous placement options with Maggies.  For an interesting perspective, try placing your center channel speakers facing each other, know as the Rooze placement.  Very wide and expansive sweet spot.

[Paul McNeil]

Magnepan does not use the word 'small'.

But I agree there are various placements because they are bipolar, and because to the wide radiation pattern.

Thats my point here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88468.msg1472308#msg1472308}.

I"ll try your suggestion!

[SteveFord]

For center channel you're trying to increase the dispersion which is why Magnepan's center channel speakers are curved. 
Their recommendations are for traditional stereo placement. 
I believe that they say tweeters in for the 3.7s but I tried it and prefer the tweeter out so their recommendations are just that: recommendations.
One thing the manuals don't mention is that the greater the toe-in the greater the perceived bass output at the listening spot.

[sfdoddsy]

I'm a new maggie owner, 1.7 and 3.6, which I use respectively for stereo in living room and center channel in home theater.

Magnepan, in their instruction manuals (for both and all speakers), states that 1) tow IN is optimal (it's in only FIGURE); 2) that tweeters can be placed inside (nearest the center of the pair) OR on the outside of the pair (to increase 'sweet spot'); and 3) that the tweeters should be the furtherest removed panel element from the listener.

This is CONTRADICTORY, if the tweeters are on the outside edge (which I agree increases soundstage 'sweet spot'). In that case, to satisfy '3' the speakers should be towed OUT.

Am I missing something? I've tried the tow OUT solution (not mentioned in the manual) and it's very a very effective solution for a center channel: increassing 'sweet spot' and resolution (see http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88468.msg1472308#msg1472308).

Anyone else have thoughts about this, including you Magnepan employees?

You're quite right. I've wondered about this myself. If the tweeters are on the inside and you toe the speakers in the woofers will be closer. If they are on the outside the tweeters will be closer. Either way they will not be aligned.

When I had Maggies they measured and sounded better aimed straight ahead.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

"When I had Maggies they measured and sounded better aimed straight ahead."
This is how I feel as well.  I have never liked the sound with my setup with ANY toe-in.  Bass becomes "boomy" and vocals sound raspy.  I have my tweeters inside and sit about 8 feet away.

[mcgsxr]

I swear Maggie placement is part of the fun/obsession of ownership.

I found my MMG',s to sound best tweeters in and crossed over significantly in front of me.  So that the tweeters crossed about 2 feet in front my my chair.

I find my 1.6's sound best tweeters out and barely toed in at a all.  So that the tweeters cross about 5-6 feet behind my chair. 

During the first 60 days of ownership the ritual of taping the existing position on the floor and trying various combinations of placement was daily!  The current position the 1.6's has been static for around 60 days now. 

I do still sometimes move the listening chair forward or backward 1-3 feet when inspired to ensure I have it all nailed. 

[SwamisCat]

With the Three series, a slight change in toe in or toe out of even one inch, can create huge changes in the mid/treble crossover range -- three to four db. This can cause the speaker to become strident, especially on female vocals.

I find it essential to measure the distance of the speaker and of toe in to an exact measure. I do it by anchoring a piece of string to the back of my chair behind where my head would go (I clip the string to a heavy tape measure). I then align the inside edges of both speakers to be exact same distance per the string. I then adjust it so the tweets are about a half inch closer to me than the woofer, and that the two woofers are the same distance from me. This leads to a smooth crossover with no peak in the 2-4khz area,and matches up with the current manufacturers recommendation graphic (the tweet is no exactly straight on to my ear as per their picture) If speaker volume isn't matched perfectly, I then move one up or back slightly to balance everything, keeping  the relationship of tweet and bass the same.


Another cool effect is the roughly 45degree angle with tweets in. This also has extremely smooth treble. It also activates the lateral bass of the room (granted not always needed) and it seems to stimulate the upper Mids. It is a bit veiled sounding, but the imaging is absolutely exact. The other benefit of the 45 degree is it eliminates disturbing side wall reflections, as it puts them in the null, again even further improving imaging.

Tweets out loses a bit of "palpability" on center vocals imo, but gains a richer tone which is absolutely gorgeous.  I am not exactly sure why. It does not necessarily result in wider imaging, indeed, center left or center right images can actually move in to the center and back and away from the speakers. Bass is better or worse depending upon the room positioning, but often gets weaker with bass panels in away from the SW.

One other thing on toe in.  Some piano and flute and jazz guitar can "ring" or sound hashy if the tweets are off compared to the Mids. Once you hear it, it can drive you crazy, as you will hear the tweeter. Again, this can be fixed via the degree of toe in, and the troubling musical selections can be used to demo it is set up right.

My thoughts.