[Folsom]

Any on this forum?

I've taken a curiosity into this lately. I suppose what I want to ask is what one assume makes a place good. For awhile now I've been curious what attributes from easing the fatigue levels in a place could be. However I haven't found anyone to take an actual step to try anything with the audio side. This obviously applies to places that have music playing, a nighttime sort of feel, upscale food, sort of place.

 

[S Clark]

Captain Humble used to run a very good Cajun restaurant in the Dallas are.  He's not around as much as he used to be, but you might send a PM. 

[Rob Babcock]

I'm not an owner but I'm a long time restaurant manager (on the chef side of things).  The owner that I've spent most of my adult life working for always stresses three things:  light level, sound level and temperature.  He's a smart cookie and I think he's right on the nose.  The lighting level will depend on the type of place and the atmosphere you want.  If you're trying to have a lively place you need some ambient sound to make people comfortable.  Temperature is also big.

What kind of place are you talking about?

[jules]

Yes, former owner and operator here ...

The great thing about music in a cafe/restaurant is that if you get it right, it gives your operation a huge gain in atmosphere which costs peanuts and doesn't require that you pay staff to make it happen. I read somewhere recently that it can give you a 20% gain in approval from customers. [Interesting  study that looked at obscure things like the colour of plates amongst a range of things].

Apart from making sure the sound quality is right I'd suggest ...

 * Make your own selection of music and don't just buy some sort of pre-recorded piped stuff.

 * Put together a few playlists using something like foobar. The longer the playlist you create, the better it will last before people get bored with hearing the same thing over and over again. If you're actually working in a place day after day variety helps too  .

 * Be brave! Don't choose music to please some imaginary "average" person. Pick what you like and what you think is interesting for one reason or another.

 * Mood changes significantly in cafes and restaurants depending on time of day, time of week, level of alcohol intake, number of customers etc. If you can craft different playlists to fit different moods it's well worth doing.

 * If you've got friends who'd be willing, you might aske them to put together a playlist for you. This is a way to get something with a different feel to what you do yourself.

I've just finished helping my son start up a cafe and it's been very rewarding to see a number of references to the quality of the music in TripAdvisor. In some ways it works a magic that customers often don't even notice.

Jules

[Folsom]

I've been trying to understand selling points.

It seems to me that improving the existing sound system is the best approach. You'll never win for good speakers placed correctly. But potentially better amplifiers could be used. However that's not even a focus I think is best.

As of right now as I look at modern systems, they run on an integrated basis. They basically come with the ordering system and light controls.

What I'd like to do is try my power conditioning. It lowers fatigue, especially with lower quality systems.

But here comes the big question. Would it be more interesting to an owner to greatly improve the mood by making everyone more interested in grooving with the music, or to make the staff feel extensively less fatigued by the loud music they hate. (Every staff member at a local place hates the music and or wants it turned down; it's obvious that by the end of the night it's sucked the life out of them)

It may also make the place more friendly to electro-sensitive people.

[Folsom]

BTW, I've been thinking about this and venues for years. Funny enough, just because the harsh sound keeps me away from enjoying so many places. It's actually hard to give a piece of equipment away to be used, believe it or not. The trial results I've had at venues are impressive. But lately I can't help but think projecting the value with marketing is a smarter idea because maybe then, at a higher price, people will be interested.

It seems people are suspicious of not shelling out thousands of dollars. And that's why I started this topic! To learn where and how to see the value that's basically abhorently obvious were anyone to try it.

[jules]

Every staff member at a local place hates the music and or wants it turned down; it's obvious that by the end of the night it's sucked the life out of them

Short, boring repetitive sound track played too loud? Could the staff be given an input to the choice of music?

As of right now as I look at modern systems, they run on an integrated basis. They basically come with the ordering system and light controls

Sorry, I'm not familiar with this. What do you get in an "integrated" package?

What I'd like to do is try my power conditioning. It lowers fatigue, especially with lower quality systems.

I see what you're getting at here but given the level of ambient noise is so high in bars and restaurants do you think that the subtlety of conditioning will help?

[srb]

As far as music volume level, as a customer I've asked that the music be turned down a number of times but I don't recall ever asking to have it turned up.

It's hard to come up with a genre and pace of music that pleases everyone.  But even if you "own" music recordings, it's actually illegal to play them in commercial establishments which is why Muzak and other music services are able to sell their service.  The music services then pay royalties to performing rights organizations (PROs), and ASCAP, BMI and SESAC represent licensing for the majority of recorded music.

Although the majority of small business fly under the radar and most of the PRO's policing efforts are concentrated on malls and shopping centers, there have been cases of the small independent bar or restaurant that has had to shut down the playing of recorded media or radio station broadcasts and some have faced uncomfortable fines.

Steve

[Folsom]

I see what you're getting at here but given the level of ambient noise is so high in bars and restaurants do you think that the subtlety of conditioning will help?

Yes. I imagine they are lower quality music files if they're on a service that's legal, such as any paid for commercial space streaming accounts. And even if they're from typical non-streaming devices the results aren't subtle with lower end equipment. It's audiophile systems that are very high quality where the results are more subtle.

To the staff I suspect it may be so noticeable they'll be asking questions, unable to understand why it's so much more pleasant. They'll probably ask why the music isn as loud, or if there was a new stereo.

The integrated systems are on ipads or like devices that control lights, sound, and ordering. Maybe it's not what I think it is, but that's essentially what one owner told me because he can't plug in a power conditioner while the business is open because it would shut down their ordering system.

I suspect people wouldn't ask to have the volume turned down nearly as much. At a house we found MP3's on a CD perfectly listenable at a volume where without power conditioning it was unlistenable. That's a great example of what it can do for first mediocre at best equipment, and lower quality media.

But no matter what I say, there's only one way to find out.

[jules]

At a house we found MP3's on a CD perfectly listenable at a volume where without power conditioning it was unlistenable. That's a great example of what it can do for first mediocre at best equipment, and lower quality media.

But no matter what I say, there's only one way to find out.

Yes indeed, I hope you can test the setup in a bar/restaurant. The feedback from staff will be very interesting, if you're willing to share it.

Jules

[Folsom]

Absolutely. But at that time it may become advertising. Right now it's just talk. However if someone here had a qualifying establishment, we could talk about sending a demo.