[apoid1]

I've tried half-dozen integrates or seperates
I'm a musician and don't react to solid state presentation with any of them
Bryston integrated
Musical Fidelity
Arcam,etc.

I would like to try tubes and wonder if anyone feels same
Solid State isn't reaching me as expected

What is a fine tube integrated in 5K or less range?

[Meicheng]

Howdy.  Altho you posted in the for sale area, I will recommend you seek out a Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated.  They sell for $2300 and are mighty good at their price point. 

[RDavidson]

Your question should probably be moved to the Starting Block.......But, while it's here :

What speakers are you using?
How big is your room and is it live or pretty dead?
How far from the speakers is your listening seat?
What types of music do you like and how loud do you typically listen?

Sorry for all the questions, but making a recommendation with so little info is a shot in the dark at best.

[apoid1]

Sony NA2ES speakers
Rega Isis CD Player
Room is about 18 x 12
not sure if it's live or dull
Seating is about 12 feet back
I don't play loud since I"m in a NYC apt
no more than 12 o'clock
I like 70's Rock also 50's Jazz & Orchestral Music/Beethoven,etc.

[RDavidson]

I know you're not sold on SS amps, but if you haven't tried class A SS you might want to. The Pass INT-30A would do you well. It has 30 wpc of high bias class A power (into 8 ohms) and something like 180 wpc class A/B dynamic power capability. It doubles power onto 4 ohms, meaning excellent power supply design. Not all SS amps sound or behave the same, and I was in a similar boat as you until I tried my first Pass amp. Similar to tube amps, I've found class A SS to sound pure, natural, and musical whether playing at low volumes or toward the limit of their class A power output range. You get many of the virtues of tubes, but without the hassles of tubes (ie their sometimes finnicky nature, the varying qualties which can be good and bad, the expense of tube rolling, and the deterioration factor). The INT-30A, which is truly a state of the art amp, lists for something like $7500, but can be had for less than $5k. Call Mark at Reno HiFi. He can very likely get a mint demo unit in your hands for well less than $5k. Mark GREATLY encourages in-home trials and makes doing so easy and fun.

But, if you think you'd like to jump ship and go tubes, there's nothing wrong with that. I have yet to come across a tube amp that didn't at least have a fluid and natural midrange. Tube amps also tend to sound good at low volumes all the way up to their output rating (and even slightly beyond). There are many under $5k int amps to choose from. I think the Rogue Cronus Magnum is a solid choice, especially as you listen at moderate volumes and it doesn't have a ton of tubes to possibly mess with replacing. Ayon Audio also make a couple of well reviewed tube integrateds that come to mind. Audio Research is also a solid choice.

Between tubes and Class A SS, to me, it really boils down to differences in precision and control vs fluidity / naturalness to varying degrees on either side of the fence. Preference really comes into play. And as stated, you may want to consider : Do you like to tweak things (ie would you enjoy tube rolling?) or are you more of a set it and forget it type?

[Early B.]

I've tried half-dozen integrates or seperates
I'm a musician and don't react to solid state presentation with any of them

First, we have to identify the real issue. When you say, you "don't react to solid state presentation," what does that mean? Whatever you mean, there could be a hundred different reasons for it.

At the end of the day, with a great audiophile-quality system, it doesn't matter whether you have tubes or SS. So I would suggest examining your current system for weaknesses, then proceed cautiously with tube separates. Tube rolling alone can cost thousands of dollars. Plus, you'll need to try lots of tube gear over several years to find out what you like.

Anyway, tell us more about the room, i.e., wood floor, lots of windows, amount of room treatment, if any, etc. Draw a picture and post it if you can.
Do you use a subwoofer?
What power conditioning are you using (for NYC, you'll need some serious stuff!)
What cables are you using?
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

[apoid1]

I use Shunyata venom power distributer

I have carpet with one window in this livingroom/no Sub

My dissatisfaction with this an other systems is
Unable to connect with music as I should/used to

There is early fatigue from listening and I'm not in sync or part of the music
Perhaps more bass is necessary since alot of the emotion is there

I had Bryston 4BSST2 w/PSB Synchrony Speakers and they were about the best I've achieved
Regret selling now but Still the Bryston wasen't as insightful or captavating as desired

Now I have Sony SS NA2ES speakers which aren't as good as PSB due to lack of deep bass
Rega TT & CD Player are very good but haven't reached full potential from lack of better Amp or speakers.

I have AQ Comet speaker cables & kimber Powerkords

I've never tried tubes in a pre,power or integrated
Thinking perhaps that's what is wrong and music to he more "human"
VSI 75 by Audio Researh would be first choice

[JLM]

I had a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium integrated tube amp (July 2014 - March 2015).  They retail for $3300, are well made modern design (many good features for first time tube owners) that sounds very good and can use a variety of tubes to produce 35 - 50 watts per channel.  I liked it, but I fretted about forgetting to turn it off, and had nearly as good of sound from my older solid state gear which wouldn't sell for nearly as much, so I sold it.  The sound was more neutral (less palpable) than some tube amps, but with my AlNiCo based speakers it was a good match and it didn't exhibit bass bloat that older tube designs are famous for.  My favorite tubes were KT77 or 6550 (both cryo'd).  2014 Stereophile class A rated.

If you're after tube palpability investigate the 40 watts per channel Decware ZMA (Zen Mystery Amp).  I considered it, but haven't heard it.  It goes for a bit over your budget and is more of a hair shirt product, but still an American hand built quality piece with lifetime warrantee.  I'd heard my speakers with a smaller Decware integrated (first generation 34I) years ago and while it had palpability in spades, it also had bass bloom (not good synergy for my speakers).

[RDavidson]

At the end of the day, with a great audiophile-quality system, it doesn't matter whether you have tubes or SS. So I would suggest examining your current system for weaknesses, then proceed cautiously with tube separates. Tube rolling alone can cost thousands of dollars. Plus, you'll need to try lots of tube gear over several years to find out what you like.

+1 In upper crust tube and SS gear (not necessarily the most expensive, but most expertly designed), the differences are more in the subtleties of the overall presentation. The long established lines between the presentation of tubes and SS become blurred.

[Early B.]

My dissatisfaction with this an other systems is
Unable to connect with music as I should/used to

There is early fatigue from listening and I'm not in sync or part of the music
Perhaps more bass is necessary since alot of the emotion is there

I think you've captured two key issues here. If you're experiencing listening fatigue, something is wrong with the setup. Maybe the speakers need to be replaced, especially since they are contributing to problem #2 -- no low level bass. Bass forms the foundation of the music and contributes significantly to sound stage and imaging. Without adequate bass, you're missing fundamental elements of the music, and there's no way you're gonna "connect with the music."

[mcgsxr]

I have never heard those Sony's, but they were well reviewed in Stereophile a number of years back.

They mentioned some amp matching issues with those, and did mention treble issues with poorer matches.

[RDavidson]

I think we shouldn't forget he lives in an apt and listens at moderate levels. At lower levels, bass is less perceiveable. What may be exacerbating the issue is not optimizing the speakers with amps (in the past). It looks like the OP has tried some quality class A/B SS. In my experience, highish power class A/B amps sound best when pushed a bit. At low listening levels they maintain detail, but don't flesh out. This quality can also be exacerbated by low sensitivity speakers. The sound ends up being thin and unnatural. The issue is multi-dimensional, though I think if he can get better amp to speaker synergy (in terms of power quality / quantity) that'd solve a lot. He may need a sub too. I've found having a sub to be not only great for filling in the foundation, it can provide a nice way to push bass frequencies up a bit when listening at low levels....like engaging the often misunderstood "loudness" button found on vintage amps and receivers.

[apoid1]

Sony SS NA2ES speakers are fairly new on the market
I don't think Stereophile reviewed them a few years back

These are $10,000 list speakers and the finish is beautiful!
I got them new for about half price so purchased them.
The midrange is supurb but low frequency only goes 45hz
(I'm missing the lowest octive)
Sub.not the best option for me,poor w/placement + other aspects
I have a neighboor that lives one floor beneath & don't want cause problem

I am unable to list Classifieds on this site for some reason
I wrote to the moderator but no response yet
Already have 38 posts and should be active member by now.
I wish to sell Musical Fidelity M6i Integreated amp & Sony speakers

When have sufficient funds my ideal choice is-
Sonus Faber Olympica III or Martin Logan Montis speakers
Audio Research VTI 75 or Pass Labs Integrated

[Quiet Earth]

I wish to sell Musical Fidelity M6i Integreated amp & Sony speakers

Ah-ha! If that is the case then you are in a very good position to make a better choice next time. Audition the amplifier and the speakers together as a package. That eliminates having to ask people which amplifier goes with which speaker. It either floats your boat or it doesn't. You will know it when you hear it.

Also, don't be afraid to spend more money on the amplifier than the speaker. Most people will tell you to allocate the majority of your budget towards the speaker, but if you are buying the amplifier and speakers  together as a working package, you don't have to follow that silly rule. You only need to hear good sound and stay within your total budget.

Hope that made sense....

[Hugh]

I couldn't have said any better.

Ah-ha! If that is the case then you are in a very good position to make a better choice next time. Audition the amplifier and the speakers together as a package. That eliminates having to ask people which amplifier goes with which speaker. It either floats your boat or it doesn't. You will know it when you hear it.

Also, don't be afraid to spend more money on the amplifier than the speaker. Most people will tell you to allocate the majority of your budget towards the speaker, but if you are buying the amplifier and speakers  together as a working package, you don't have to follow that silly rule. You only need to hear good sound and stay within your total budget.

Hope that made sense....

[FullRangeMan]

What is a fine tube integrated in 5K or less range?

You should choose around your favorite tube.
What is your favorite output tube? EL34,300B,211,805?

[JLM]

I'd post your used gear on Audiogon as Musical Fidelity amps and Sony speakers are not popular on Audio Circle.  Gear sells much faster on "Agon" (larger audience of folks focused on buying).

Agree to buy amp/speakers together and try to get a grace period to do a home audition (most audio shops don't look/sound anything like home).

When visiting audio shops don't seriously audition more than 3 or 4 setups per day (the brain gets fatigued/confused/has limited aural memory).  Bring your own music that you're familiar with and covers the range of what you listen to.  Try to listen in the same speaker/seat setup as at home.

[kentajalli]

I am not familiar with your speakers.
A quick look at the results from this review
http://www.stereophile.com/content/sony-ss-na2es-loudspeaker-measurements#RzZQrK6Gj5pCVSbv.97
shows they are well spec. pair of speakers.
three points to focus on,
1- the impedance drops to just below 4 Ohms, so you must choose an amp to be happy driving 4Ohm speakers.
2- These are fairly efficient speakers, meaning you do not need much power ( 20W -30W).
3- The impedance curve is a little wild! I reckon ultimately, after cherry picking your short-list, you will need to audition them in your room.
Also the reviewer encountered some room acoustics at 50Hz (low bass) - could the same be happening to you?
Try repositioning them, or move your listening position.
Tube or SS - that is not the question, quality is!
If you should go tube, make sure it has 4Ohm taps, and very good output transformers (unless you go OTL - I have, and haven't look back).
Good luck

[mcgsxr]

Both Stereophile and The Absolute Sound have reviewed these speakers.

They appear to be excellent, with some caveats about treble in both reviews.

TAS here - http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sony-na2es-loudspeaker/