[Gzerro]

I have been reading all the positive reviews in various places about Ultrasonic record cleaning and decided to give it a try if I could get it done in the $500ish range.

I found this system for spinning the records on E-bay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-Vinyl-Record-Cleaning-Kit-Vinyl-Stack-ULTRA-Sonic-Spin-Kit-/161402849405

The system is well thought out and works exactly as it shows in the video. I would recommend this to those who aren't DIYers but want a well thought out design that is quick and easy to use.

I also bought an ultrasonic bath like this one from an e-bay seller (ad no longer on e-bay but model is the same):

http://www.thelashop.com/10l-stainless-steel-digital-heater-ultrasonic-cleaning-machine.html?kpid=36UCN013-SS10L-11&gclid=CMq-1LCI08MCFQaTfgodQnoAYg.

For fluid I used distilled water, about 4oz of 91% alcohol, and a few drops of Kodak photo-flow. I cleaned the US bath with distilled water and alcohol before using and let it run a few minutes to de-gas and warm up the fluid to about 40C. I ran the motor on the 4minute per revolution setting for one revolution.

I started with a batch of 8 records that all had minor issues or for which I had duplicates. All records had been previously cleaned on VPI or my old KAB EV vacuum type machine using Nitty Gritty cleaning solution with a rinse of pure lab water. I use an Enzyme cleaner also on really dirty records, but don't buy anything that isn't clean and at least  VG+ unless it is very rare and not otherwise available.

I detail my findings below but in general:

1) I can see what people say about US Cleaning changing the presentation somewhat. Vocals especially are a little more natural and "smoother", bass lines a little clearer. I sense perhaps some slight loss of dynamics and air. This could be audiophoolerly of course. I am comparing to prior listening sessions 24-72 hours prior. Before and after needle drops would be ideal, but I don't have a setup for that.

2) In most cases general background surface noise increased. Some records just slightly or not really a noticeable change, others basically destroyed EDIT - had a significant increase in noise but a thorough 3 step clean on the VPI removed 95% of this increased noise. The outside tracks got more noise than the inside tracks. I don't have an explanation as this is the opposite of what most report with US cleaning. I tried a rinse on the VPI but it did not help EDIT- But a 3 step clean with on the VPI largely corrected the problem. A second round of US cleaning for the worst records (using fresh fluid) increased surface noise even more.

3) The worse a record was to start, the better it ended up. Or perhaps it is a difference between older 70s pressings which improved while the newer re-issues in general got worse.

I am frustrated at this point. Most report good results following the same steps. I suppose it could be an issue with the budget Chinese US cleaner. Perhaps a lack of filtering, but that wouldn't seem necessary for the first couple of batches if starting with clean fluid.

Maybe I will try again if I can find some explanation for the poor results or if I find a way to borrow a more expensive cleaner to test out.

Any ideas appreciated.

Tom



Detail Results EDIT - Before 3 Step Cleaning with VPI Machine, After cleaning the "BAD" albums became "OK". Not better but not destroyed
________________________________________________________________________________
Results Good:

J.J. Cale "5" - This record was a used record store find in iffy shape. I would rate it a "Good". After cleaning I would call it a VG -. Everything seemed much more natural sounding and smoother . Before cleaning it had alot of surface noise in parts and most remained, but it improved.

John Hiatt - "Slow Turning" 70s Pressing - This was a pretty decent record with some noise. It cleaned it up in spots, but perhaps increased the baseline noise (especially noticable between songs). Similar improvement to the J.J. Cale record.

Billie Holiday - Body & Soul - Speakers Corner reissue - This record has been played alot and has some signficant surface noise, especially on side 2. The US cleaning didn't help the surface noise, but the overall presentation was again more natural and smoother.


The "OK".

Grant Green Idle Moments - Music Matters 33RPM Reissue - This record always has quite a bit of surface noise, especially on the title track. This was not fixed and perhaps even a little worse after cleaning. It did benefit from a slightly more natural, smooth presentation.

The Bad:

Joni Mitchell blue (Rhino Re-issue) - This album had some surface noise, especially during the ballads such as the River. After cleaning it had sandpaper like surface noise that could be heard throughout especially between songs, but also in any quiet passages. The midrange perhaps had some of the more natural quality of the others, but overall I consider this record to have been destroyed.

Michael Hurley Snockgrass (Mississipi Records reissue)- Same as the Joni Mitchell record. Increased surface noise throughout. Destroyed.

Citizen Cope - "One Lovely day" - Increased surface noise throughout. Destroyed.

Canonball Adderly "Something Else" - Slighly increased surface noise, not as much as the others. Possibly some benefit from the US cleaning in terms of clarity of mid-range. Still listenable.

[ACHiPo]

Great review/summary.  Thanks for posting!  I'm still on the fence regarding ultrasonics, as if I go it will not be DIY, which makes for a pretty big leap.

[harri009]

Your review is not the first I have read that said they had an increase in surface noise after ultra sonic cleaning.  Perhaps HW from VPI was right about the record being bombarded by dirt essentially smashing the grooves to who knows what.   It makes sense for it to be damaging the vinyl in certain ways

[Gzerro]

I edited my original post to indicate that while a good rinse on my VPI vacuum machine did not help, a thorough 3 step clean using Nitty Gritty "First", Cleaning Solution (left on 5 minutes scrubbing occasionally), and then a rinse with pure lab water did remove almost all of the increased surface noise.

So the noise was not groove damage, but some sort of contamination that dried on during the air dry process. I suspect it must be something leftover from the manufacturing process of the ultrasonic machine that cleaning with alcohol and DI water didn't remove.

I guess the next step is to see if the machine "breaks in" and cleans up, or to add some sort of filtration process as others have done.

[roscoeiii]

That's a great price on the ultrasonic machine you got. My impression was that those were a $500+ investment.

In light of your unusual experience, it makes me wonder if the machine wasn't particularly well-suited to cleaning records. I figure you have probably seen the thread at diyaudio.com, but if you haven't you might want to get folks' impressions of that ultrasonic machine over there.

[Gzerro]

That's a great price on the ultrasonic machine you got. My impression was that those were a $500+ investment.

In light of your unusual experience, it makes me wonder if the machine wasn't particularly well-suited to cleaning records. I figure you have probably seen the thread at diyaudio.com, but if you haven't you might want to get folks' impressions of that ultrasonic machine over there.

I have read several of the threads at DIY audio, but nothing specific about the machine I purchased. I will take another look to see if anyone else has tried it and perhaps post over there as well. I have seen that many prefer 60 or 80Hz units, but those machines are much more expensive.

Thanks for the input.

[roscoeiii]

I have read several of the threads at DIY audio, but nothing specific about the machine I purchased. I will take another look to see if anyone else has tried it and perhaps post over there as well. I have seen that many prefer 60 or 80Hz units, but those machines are much more expensive.

Thanks for the input.

Yeah, I think there is a lot of discussion of the best kHz level for ultrasonic cleaning over there. And a very helpful community of folks in general. They should be able to give some feedback and suggestions re: your experiences.

[*Scotty*]

Gzerro did the records get a final rinse in DI water after they came out of the ultrasonic cleaner? Also the ion exchange resin beds in the filters that produce Deionized water eventually become exhausted and the filter will start releasing the Ca ions and Mg ions it has captured along with a host of other ions, basically producing water that is has a heavier load of hard water ions than it started with.
You may have contamination from the water bath or the latter ion problem or both contributing to the surface noise problem.
Scotty

[Gzerro]

Gzerro did the records get a final rinse in DI water after they came out of the ultrasonic cleaner? Also the ion exchange resin beds in the filters that produce Deionized water eventually become exhausted and the filter will start releasing the Ca ions and Mg ions it has captured along with a host of other ions, basically producing water that is has a heavier load of hard water ions than it started with.
You may have contamination from the water bath or the latter ion problem or both contributing to the surface noise problem.
Scotty

Yes, I immediately rinsed with pure lab water after they came out of the ultrasonic cleaner and vacuumed on my VPI to fully dry, but that did not help. It took a very thorough scrubbing to remove the contamination.

I purchased the Distilled water from the grocery store, but I will get my next batch of water from a different source just in case.

[orientalexpress]

Have u try  air dry instead of vacuum ?

[Gzerro]

Have u try  air dry instead of vacuum ?

I tried playing a couple air dry only (it would be nice to skip that step), but they had bad surface noise so I added the rinse/vacuum step.

[mick wolfe]

My friend built an ultrasonic cleaner about a year ago. In fact, he built three. Results have been excellent, but the 60Khz. ultrasonic cleaning unit alone was well over $600. Total investment closer to $900. I don't believe he's ever said his cleaner made any piece of vinyl more noisy.....quite the opposite in fact. There's a discussion on DIY ultrasonic cleaners over at AudioAsylum ( Vinyl) right now.  My friend ( Big Muck) has mentioned his cleaner in that thread. You can also use the search engine there to find pics of the finished product. Just type  "Big Muck" in the search box. He started with the basic concept posted at the DIY audio website a few years back and refined it further. I also believe through a bit of research he found the 60Khz unit is much preferred over the 40Khz. unit.

[Gzerro]

My friend built an ultrasonic cleaner about a year ago. In fact, he built three. Results have been excellent, but the 60Khz. ultrasonic cleaning unit alone was well over $600. Total investment closer to $900. I don't believe he's ever said his cleaner made any piece of vinyl more noisy.....quite the opposite in fact. There's a discussion on DIY ultrasonic cleaners over at AudioAsylum ( Vinyl) right now.  My friend ( Big Muck) has mentioned his cleaner in that thread. You can also use the search engine there to find pics of the finished product. Just type  "Big Muck" in the search box. He started with the basic concept posted at the DIY audio website a few years back and refined it further. I also believe through a bit of research he found the 60Khz unit is much preferred over the 40Khz. unit.

Those are really well done units Big Muck made! I think a filtering system like his is the solution that will solve the noise issue.

Thanks for posting.

Tom

[MtnHam]

Having owned a Klaudio for over a year, I am totally pleased with the results. Never have I experienced more surface noise after cleaning, nor have I ever heard or read of anyone else experiencing this with a Klaudio or Audio Desk unit. I use RO water from my kitchen sink, and nothing else.

[simoon]

Your review is not the first I have read that said they had an increase in surface noise after ultra sonic cleaning.  Perhaps HW from VPI was right about the record being bombarded by dirt essentially smashing the grooves to who knows what.   It makes sense for it to be damaging the vinyl in certain ways

I cannot believe that dental labs, jewelers, electronics manufacturers, eyeglass repair and manufacturers, contact lens cleaning, and many other types of manufacturers and maintenance companies use ultrasonic cleaning machines, if it is true that they cause damage. They have been around for over 60 years, if they caused damage, don't you think it would have been noticed by now? They are used in literally the vast majority of precision manufacturing.

And all the following materials have been used and considered ideal candidates: small electronic parts, cables, rods, wires and detailed items, as well as objects made of glass, plastic, aluminum or ceramic.

Not to mention, that dirt particles are known to fall out of suspension almost immediately. So, what is the source of said dirt that is 'bombarding' the record ?

Now, in all honesty, there is something called 'cavitation erosion' which can cause damage to the object being cleaned. But usually only at lower frequencies (20khz) and if the object is left in the cleaner for an excessive amount of time. The higher the frequency, the less likelihood damage will be done, and at much longer times than records are cleaned at.

[roscoeiii]

Simoon, do you mean 20kHz or 20Hz?

[simoon]

Simoon, do you mean 20kHz or 20Hz?

Oops!

K of course.

Thanks for the correction. I edited my post.