Suggestions for Building a computer based music server

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 7981 times.

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3626
I have been listening to my HD files (FLAC up to 24/196, DSD128 and DXD) for awhile now using PC's (desktop and laptop) running both Windows 7 64 bit and 8.1 64 bit. These are just normal stock ASUS and HP machines.

I would like to build a dedicated PC as a music server for my main listening room. I am thinking of using something like an SOtM sound card http://www.sotm-audio.com.au/product/sotm-tx-usb-pcie/  . This particular sound card would require the motherboard to have at least one open PCIe x1 Gen 2 slot. The computer will be connected to an external DAC via USB. JRMC will be the playback software and I want to be able to control JRMC from an iPad or Windows tablet.

What OS, CPUs, motherboards, chipsets, power supplies, cases, other sound cards, etc. would you recommend for such a PC?

Thanks,

Mike

aldcoll

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 769
  • Champagne Taste on a Water Budget
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jan 2015, 01:08 am »
All I can offer is some of the same research I am going through :scratch:

I am running a SB Touch that just arrived to replace a SB3 and that in it's self is a vast improvement.  While palying around I am running a USB 1T HD as a stand alone player.  This set up was a test for some off the grid vacation I am taking.  Gotta have tunes.

But some of the best information will be found here and Computer Audiophile.  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/   Lots of help tips and tricks how to Builds that they also offer as finished.

From what I have been reading folks seem to like Linux and here is a place that has a free or donated  software.  http://www.ap-linux.com/


Good luck and happy hunting :thumb:

Alan

chip

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 868

Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1932
  • Hmmmm
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #3 on: 12 Jan 2015, 04:32 am »
Mike, I did something like you're considering about 3 years ago.

 I knew what I wanted to do, but I really didn't have a good handle on what products to use to get it done...hence my introduction to Computer Audiophile. I read lots and finally figured that having someone else do the proof of concept and parts vetting was worth it. Also it was helpful to have a community where I could ask questions and be on the same page as others. I think I posted a few times here as well.

I waited for the second generation of CAPs and took the plunge with a CAPs Carbon.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/496-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-carbon/

I think the motherboard this used is NLA, but Chris is onto next generation of stuff anyway.

Here's my take away:

 I'd built computers before so only the form factor was new to me as far as assembly. It took some time to get it sorted as I had some difficulty getting the SOtM card functional. In fact I never did get it working and Sonore was gracious enough to take it back. I really don't know what the problem was but went a little different route by using an iFi iUSB and Gemini cable. I learned lots along the way, but really don't have what I'd call a great depth of knowledge on music servers in general so I'm glad there are people willing to help. It is a computer after all and they seem to enjoy throwing curve balls from time to time just to watch their operators squirm.

I'm glad I did it and have considered building one of the next generation, but I don't know that I'd actually gain much in terms of sound quality. My next big audio expenditure will be speakers from our favorite designer. FWIW, I find the JRiver interface on PC kinda clunky, but the JRemote for iOS is easy to love. Best use of an iPad I've found!


 

S Clark

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 7464
  • a riot is the language of the unheard- Dr. King
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #4 on: 12 Jan 2015, 05:17 am »
You might want to contact AC member HAL.  He builds a very fine music server that many of our members use.  And it's much cheaper than the  smallgreencomputer stuff.

Nick77

Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #5 on: 12 Jan 2015, 11:23 am »
I built a rig similar to CA Carbon also. The testing has been done as to what works best. No need to re-invent the wheel here.
The Carbon is great for lower cost project, newer versions are much more expensive but have more power if needed.

Beside the sotm, Paul Pang audio makes a USB card for less money. Getting the SSD on battery power instead of motherboard is also a big sonic value.
« Last Edit: 12 Jan 2015, 12:52 pm by Nick77 »

chip

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 868
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #6 on: 12 Jan 2015, 03:38 pm »
Looks like this is an alternative board - http://www.logicsupply.com/components/motherboards/intel-atom/pd11ti/

Mitac PD11TI Thin Mini-ITX replacement for Intel DN2800MT
Model Number: PD11TI
Identical alternative to Intel's DN2800MT & DN2800MTE motherboard manufactured by Intel-licensed OEM. (Previous model: DN2800MTM)


Here is the post to all the CAPS builds - http://www.computeraudiophile.com/section/c-p-s-489/


Paul Pang USB Audio Card - http://ppaproduct.blogspot.tw/2013/07/audio-grade-usb-30-pcie-card.html




randytsuch

Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #7 on: 12 Jan 2015, 04:28 pm »
Mike
What's your budget, and how much work are you willing to do?

I put a lot of work into my PC as a tradeoff to keeping my dollar costs down.

I'm also on the lunatic fringe, I have a PC that is powered by linear PS's, with a PCIE to USB card that I modded myself to run on linear power.

Randy

Nick77

Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #8 on: 12 Jan 2015, 05:41 pm »
Didnt realize Paul is now offering a V3 USB card that looks very interesting but cost over $400.  :duh:

mcgsxr

Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #9 on: 12 Jan 2015, 07:32 pm »
While I understand that some folks WANT a high end server involved, I found it insightful that none over at CA suggested that if you are using a streamer that the quality of the server is that relevant from an SQ perspective.

I only raise it, as I find it easier and more affordable to build/buy a good streamer than a good server.

If you are dead set on building up a good server (and frankly I get that) I think the HAL solution might be well worth exploring.

chip

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 868
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #10 on: 12 Jan 2015, 07:33 pm »
Didnt realize Paul is now offering a V3 USB card that looks very interesting but cost over $400.  :duh:

I missed the V3 card smaller and pricier.

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3626
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #11 on: 13 Jan 2015, 03:14 am »
Also for prebuilt machines -

http://shop.smallgreencomputer.com/Computer-Audiophile-Pocket-Server_c5.htm

Mike, I did something like you're considering about 3 years ago.

 I knew what I wanted to do, but I really didn't have a good handle on what products to use to get it done...hence my introduction to Computer Audiophile. I read lots and finally figured that having someone else do the proof of concept and parts vetting was worth it. Also it was helpful to have a community where I could ask questions and be on the same page as others. I think I posted a few times here as well.

I waited for the second generation of CAPs and took the plunge with a CAPs Carbon.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/496-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-carbon/

I think the motherboard this used is NLA, but Chris is onto next generation of stuff anyway.

Here's my take away:

 I'd built computers before so only the form factor was new to me as far as assembly. It took some time to get it sorted as I had some difficulty getting the SOtM card functional. In fact I never did get it working and Sonore was gracious enough to take it back. I really don't know what the problem was but went a little different route by using an iFi iUSB and Gemini cable. I learned lots along the way, but really don't have what I'd call a great depth of knowledge on music servers in general so I'm glad there are people willing to help. It is a computer after all and they seem to enjoy throwing curve balls from time to time just to watch their operators squirm.

I'm glad I did it and have considered building one of the next generation, but I don't know that I'd actually gain much in terms of sound quality. My next big audio expenditure will be speakers from our favorite designer. FWIW, I find the JRiver interface on PC kinda clunky, but the JRemote for iOS is easy to love. Best use of an iPad I've found!

Peter and Chip,

Thanks. I have checked out the links and read the material about the V4. Very interesting and a lot of good information.

Peter,

I have also built computers up basically from scratch and have no concerns on that score.  I have an iPad mini 2 on order so I may have to give JRemote a look. I had planned on using a remote desktop app to access the computer and control JRMC.

You might want to contact AC member HAL.  He builds a very fine music server that many of our members use.  And it's much cheaper than the  smallgreencomputer stuff.

Thanks, I'll check into that

Mike
What's your budget, and how much work are you willing to do?

I put a lot of work into my PC as a tradeoff to keeping my dollar costs down.

I'm also on the lunatic fringe, I have a PC that is powered by linear PS's, with a PCIE to USB card that I modded myself to run on linear power.

Randy

Randy,

My budget is flexible as this project will take some time to put together and like Peter, I still have some speakers to build first.

My current server, an HP laptop with a 4TB external HDD, works but I would like to build one that will work better. I like the idea of using the HDPlex LPS since it could power the PC, the sound card, and one of my 12v DAC's. Also, as I mentioned, I don't have any problem building it up from parts and installing  the OS and programs myself. Be like my old DOS days in the mid '80's.

While I understand that some folks WANT a high end server involved, I found it insightful that none over at CA suggested that if you are using a streamer that the quality of the server is that relevant from an SQ perspective.

I only raise it, as I find it easier and more affordable to build/buy a good streamer than a good server.

If you are dead set on building up a good server (and frankly I get that) I think the HAL solution might be well worth exploring.

mcgsxr,

Streaming would be easier but I would be limited to 24/196 and my music library includes DXD, DSD64, DSD128 and a few sample DSD256 files. Also, only one of my better DAC's has an Ethernet connection. The rest cannot accept streamed data.  So a server is what I need.

After reading everything I am thinking about:

CASE: mid ATX tower with good ventilation and at least 4 HDD slots (one for a SSD for the OS and the others for storage);
CPU: Not sure about this, maybe an AMD FX series but don't really know (the computer I am typing this on has an AMD FX processor);
MOTHERBOARD: AMD motherboard (just because I tend to prefer AMD to Intel) with USB 2.0, USB 3.0, and eSATA ports;
RAM: 16GB to match the motherboard, processor and chipset;
HDD: WD Blacks or Reds
SOUNDCARD: HD sound card (SOtM or similar);
VIDEO: either onboard or a video card so installation, setup and maintenance are easy to do in a method I am used to working with (monitor, keyboard and mouse);
PSU: LPS power supply like the C.A.P.S. units (HDPlex Linear Power Supply in combination with the HDPlex 250W Internal DC-ATX PSU);
FILTERS: SATA and fan from SOtM

At least this is what I am thinking about. When it comes to the case I don't really care what it looks like. I am much more interested in good air flow and plenty of room for my big fat hands to work in.

Mike

chip

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 868
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #12 on: 13 Jan 2015, 03:53 pm »
Did you plan on Windows 7 or Windows 8 for this?

randytsuch

Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #13 on: 13 Jan 2015, 04:01 pm »
Hi Mike
Here's what my PC looks like
http://randytsuch-audio.blogspot.com/2014/09/pc-built-for-audio-playback-2014.html

But I need to update the information there, I have made some changes, mostly adding relays to make it easier to power on and off.  I was up the 5 switches plus the power button to turn it on  :duh:, now I have two switches.

Note that I made a very different PC a year ago, fanless with an intel server motherboard and ECC DDR3.  Much of this was based on what guys discuss at the Jplay forum.  But I had some heat issues with fanless and the server motherboard chipset, and later I had USB issues which I never could resolve, so I changed to a different mb which is supposed to be friendly to using non ATX compliant power supplies.  I built my own linear power supplies, so I wanted a mb which would work, and this one was proven to not care much about how I power it up.

Most people at Jplay use Intel processors.  The recommended processor over there is a lower power Xeon.  There have been comparisons, and the Xeon sounded better.  I've seen theories that maybe the bigger Xeon cache helps sound, but no one really knows why.  The other nice thing (to me) about the intel processor is that most of them have built in graphics, so no graphics card is necessary.  I'm of the opinion that for the best PC audio, minimalist is better, so I like not having a graphics card.  This also lets you use mini itx or micro atx motherboards, again something I consider a good thing.

As shown in my page, I don't have a xeon installed, but I bought one a little while ago, and need to try it soon.  I just want to make some other mods to my MB first, and I haven't gotten around to those yet.

Another thing they recommend at Jplay forum is ECC ram, along with an Intel server MB, but as I said, for some reason I didn't have good luck with that combination.

And there are a bunch of other tweaks/mods that are discussed.  Powering your OS SSD off of battery, Windows Server 2012 or 2012R2 as the OS, Audiophile optimizer, different audio playback software, modding your own PCIE/USB card (I have done this also).

One other place I visit for ideas is the Tir Na Hifi forum.  I learned about the PCIE USB card mod, and much about options for linear power to a motherboard over there.

on cases.  I started with a small case designed for fanless use.  Later I recycled a much larger case meant for a HTPC.  I have ripped out most of the HTPC stuff from it, and just use it for a big case to experiment in.  It has worked well for me because it gives me enough room to add in any tweaks I want to try.  I just have a processor fan, that is all I need to keep it cool.  I think I'm drawing around 30 watts, so there isn't much power to worry about.

Randy

chip

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 868
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #14 on: 13 Jan 2015, 04:40 pm »
Yes also like mentioned Server 2012 with Audiophile optimizer.

Otherwise if you are running win7 or win8 then look into fidelizer.


mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3626
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #15 on: 13 Jan 2015, 08:24 pm »
Did you plan on Windows 7 or Windows 8 for this?

Chip,

I had planned on using Windows 7 Ultimate.  I have never used Server 2012.

Hi Mike
Here's what my PC looks like
http://randytsuch-audio.blogspot.com/2014/09/pc-built-for-audio-playback-2014.html

But I need to update the information there, I have made some changes, mostly adding relays to make it easier to power on and off.  I was up the 5 switches plus the power button to turn it on  :duh:, now I have two switches.

Note that I made a very different PC a year ago, fanless with an intel server motherboard and ECC DDR3.  Much of this was based on what guys discuss at the Jplay forum.  But I had some heat issues with fanless and the server motherboard chipset, and later I had USB issues which I never could resolve, so I changed to a different mb which is supposed to be friendly to using non ATX compliant power supplies.  I built my own linear power supplies, so I wanted a mb which would work, and this one was proven to not care much about how I power it up.

Most people at Jplay use Intel processors.  The recommended processor over there is a lower power Xeon.  There have been comparisons, and the Xeon sounded better.  I've seen theories that maybe the bigger Xeon cache helps sound, but no one really knows why.  The other nice thing (to me) about the intel processor is that most of them have built in graphics, so no graphics card is necessary.  I'm of the opinion that for the best PC audio, minimalist is better, so I like not having a graphics card.  This also lets you use mini itx or micro atx motherboards, again something I consider a good thing.

As shown in my page, I don't have a xeon installed, but I bought one a little while ago, and need to try it soon.  I just want to make some other mods to my MB first, and I haven't gotten around to those yet.

Another thing they recommend at Jplay forum is ECC ram, along with an Intel server MB, but as I said, for some reason I didn't have good luck with that combination.

And there are a bunch of other tweaks/mods that are discussed.  Powering your OS SSD off of battery, Windows Server 2012 or 2012R2 as the OS, Audiophile optimizer, different audio playback software, modding your own PCIE/USB card (I have done this also).

One other place I visit for ideas is the Tir Na Hifi forum.  I learned about the PCIE USB card mod, and much about options for linear power to a motherboard over there.

on cases.  I started with a small case designed for fanless use.  Later I recycled a much larger case meant for a HTPC.  I have ripped out most of the HTPC stuff from it, and just use it for a big case to experiment in.  It has worked well for me because it gives me enough room to add in any tweaks I want to try.  I just have a processor fan, that is all I need to keep it cool.  I think I'm drawing around 30 watts, so there isn't much power to worry about.

Randy

Randy,

Thanks. It is obvious I have a lot to learn.

Mike

mcgsxr

Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #16 on: 13 Jan 2015, 10:46 pm »
Ah yes, DSD in all its variants seems to require the use of a server, sorry I missed that part.  And it was in the FIRST sentence too!

Looks like folks with lots of experience are chiming in.  Have fun!

I see a CAPS server for sale in the classifieds right now, not sure if the specs match your needs.


mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3626
Re: Suggestions for Building a computer based music server
« Reply #18 on: 16 Jan 2015, 03:32 am »
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131698.msg1393647;topicseen#new

Good buy.

Nick,

Thanks for the heads up. I just bought this C.A.P.S. v3 Carbon form Anthony. I'll be paiting it with the Dodd Audio 32/384 plus DSD DAC I just got from Jon.

Thanks everybody for all the help and advice.

Mike