HDMI de-embedder options

brj · « **on:** 21 Mar 2015, 09:07 pm »

Hello everyone.

(Facilitator, it was a toss-up for me as to whether this belonged here or in the Home Theater circle. Move at will should you feel it appropriate.)

My stereo system is definitely focused on serving music from my NAS at the highest quality possible, but I do want to connect my various video components on occasion, and that is proving challenging given the prevalence of higher res and multi-channel audio formats within those components. Ultimately, I'm trying to send the the highest possible resolution 2-channel audio into my Mac Mini server via its mini-TOSLINK optical connection. (My Mini performs driver EQ in the digital domain for my active speakers, so unfortunately I can't bypass it and go straight to my DAC, with it's more extensive connection options.)

My video based sources include:

Panasonic Plasma - single TOSLINK audio output that plays PCM or Dolby based on the source material with no ability to downmix to stereo (older models did, apparently); 4 HDMI inputs, one with an Audio Return Channel
Oppo BDP-105 - single TOSLINK output limited to 16 bit/48 kHz only; 1 available HDMI output (supports ARC)
AppleTV - single TOSLINK output limited to 16 bit/48 kHz only, though it will pass also Dolby Digital

So the solution would appear to be an HDMI de-embedder with multiple HDMI inputs, at least one TOSLINK output, and the ability to downmix Dolby to stereo PCM.

Ideally, it would have a TOSLINK input as well to take in Dolby Digital from the AppleTV, but that component is largely extraneous now that I set up the Mac Mini server, so I won't let that be the deal breaker. A coaxial S/PDIF output would be nice too, just for future proofing, but again, not critical.

Any recommendations or cautions?

(I've read John Gatski's de-embedder review, but didn't know how much the landscape had changed in the last 2 years.)

Many thanks!

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 09:21 pm »

I started the de-embedder discussion five years ago. Here's the beginning of it. Plenty of info. Nothing much has changed (not a lot of need anymore now that we have BluRay and SACD ripping).
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82217.0

I'm not sure a de-embedder does you much good. You need a toslink switcher, mainly. De-embedders still need HDMI at the back end (to complete the hand shake) and I don;t see it in your case, but I might be missing something.

brj · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 09:54 pm »

Thanks, Ted.

Most of my components, including the Oppo, are limited to 16/48 over TOSLINK, whereas with HDMI handshaking, they can go up to their full native res. I need a de-embedder that will take the hand-shaked HDMI and output full res TOSLINK, downmixing to stereo where needed.

Unless I'm missing something myself...

BCRich1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 10:05 pm »

I do Custom AV for a living, try this.
We just did a new Sony LED TV using the Optical out of the TV to a Parasound Stereo Dac.
I could not find anything in the TV Set up menus to Down Convert the audio to 2-CH PCM, I had initially turned the TV Speakers off and I was getting the same garbled sound, I ended up re-enabling the TV Speakers turned the TV Volume Down all the way and for some reason it was now a down converted signal. Bizarre.....give it a shot.
Mike

Also HDMI from all sources to the TV.....

brj · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 10:16 pm »

Thanks, Rich. I can try it, but based on the forum research that I did already, the Panasonic TC-P60GT50 truly doesn't support downconverting of Dolby Digital contained in a feed from its own sources (whether OTA broadcasts or content streamed over the Ethernet connection) to stereo PCM. Earlier models did, however, as I found the menu setting that allowed it in the manuals for older models. I compared those to my manual in the exact same section and the option isn't there.

brj · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 10:31 pm »

No luck. Anything is worth a shot though - thanks!

BCRich1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 10:37 pm »

What are your sources? Turn Dolby Digital off......Apple TV can be set to Off, so can the Oppo.
What about using the Digital in on the Oppo?

brj · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 11:02 pm »

Hi Rich. Right now, I'm not even using an external source - I've been testing/experimenting with the TV decoding over-the-air digital broadcasts and Netflix. There is no setting in the TV manual or that I've found by searching that lets me impact the audio output format in any way. All OTA broadcasts and most newer content on Netflix use Dolby Digital, and the Mini can't decode Dolby Digital on the optical input (that I've found).

I had hoped to use the Oppo to downmix DD from the HMDI input to the TOSLINK output, but that limits me to the 16 bit/48 kHz capability of the Oppo's TOSLINK output. (And until I start to get my SACDs ripped and moved over to my NAS, that means that I can't play those as full-res either.) Thus my search for an HDMI input/TOSLINK output based audio extractor/downmixer.

If I've missed something obvious - please let me know! Thanks!

srb · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Mar 2015, 11:28 pm »

I think you're quite right. I have a Panasonic TH-50PZ85U from 2008 and there is no way to configure it to output 2 channel PCM - it can only pass through the encoding of the source program material.

Quote from: brj on 21 Mar 2015, 11:02 pm

I had hoped to use the Oppo to downmix DD from the HMDI input to the TOSLINK output, but that limits me to the 16 bit/48 kHz capability of the Oppo's TOSLINK output.

The Oppo 105 should be able to accept up to 24/96 on its TOSLINK input and output up to 24/192 on its TOSLINK output.

Steve

brj · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 04:35 pm »

Hi Steve - thanks for the reply. Yes, I see that the Oppo is capable of 24/192 LPCM 2-channel on the optical output, but it varies with the source. Because I would rip any high-res audio discs to store on my NAS and deal with the resolution then, the only source I'd care about is when using the Oppo to spin Blu-ray. In that case, I'm left with the impression that the Oppo would output 16/48, though I'm having a hard time confirming that. (My Oppo is out getting modded at the moment, so I can't test it directly.) That's what started me asking these questions.

Thanks!

JRace · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 05:13 pm »

what about taking the Oppos analog outputs into a ADC going into the mac?

Phil A · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Mar 2015, 06:51 pm »

Does this fit your needs? http://atlona.com/product/at-hd577/

brj · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 05:49 am »

JRace - yes, that approach would get the signal out, but I'm not sure it would be much better than just accepting the 16-bit/48 kHz limit of the Oppo.

Phil - the HD577, and the newer HD570, don't explicitly mention the ability to downmix from multi-channel to stereo. The only device that I've found that converts Dolby to PCM and mentions downmixing is the PureLink HEXA-01, but there is little in the way of reviews on this unit. That said, at $500 list price, you're starting to hit the price level of several full-on AV processors...

Thanks to you both!

windhoek · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 06:55 am »

How about the Monoprice HDMI De-Embedder? It has a button on it allowing the device to select 2.0 or 5.1 audio, so that might do the trick.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

avahifi · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 12:50 pm »

Yup, the Monoprice de-embedder works just fine. I have been using one similar for the past couple of years to strip SPDIF from my cable box HTMI signal to feed it to my DAC to provide best possible audio for my two channel AV system.

Frank Van Alstine

Phil A · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 01:16 pm »

The Monoprice is reasonably priced. I have one and one made by the manufacturer for Monoprice which is identical - http://www.port-ta.com/products/203.html

Phil A · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Mar 2015, 01:39 pm »

Quote from: brj on 23 Mar 2015, 05:49 am

JRace - yes, that approach would get the signal out, but I'm not sure it would be much better than just accepting the 16-bit/48 kHz limit of the Oppo.

Phil - the HD577, and the newer HD570, don't explicitly mention the ability to downmix from multi-channel to stereo. The only device that I've found that converts Dolby to PCM and mentions downmixing is the PureLink HEXA-01, but there is little in the way of reviews on this unit. That said, at $500 list price, you're starting to hit the price level of several full-on AV processors...

Thanks to you both!

The only caution with any of them is sometimes needing a handshake. Not a problem if the units on get one from the display and that is being used. The HD577 (and some others) has EDID ability. It's not a problem with the set-up I'm using one (I may try another system eventually) as the disc playback is only for a guest and my (modded) BDP-83 does not require a handshake.

brj · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Mar 2015, 11:57 pm »

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

After a few clarifying emails, I received confirmation from Monoprice tech support that the TOSlink output of their unit is also limited to 16-bit/48 kHz. Given that, it looks like I live with the 16-bit/48 kHz TOSlink output of the Oppo I already own, or I step up to the PureLink or an actual AV processor. (And I'm not finding that too many of the lower end AV processors that I've checked out of curiosity specify their TOSlink output limits either.)

cliffy · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Mar 2015, 02:20 pm »

Another Atlona product that may work for you.

I would chat with their tech people to confirm the max output from the coax jack.

AT-HD4-V41

This unit is also a 4/1 HDMI switcher w/de-embedding. They also have the AT-HD4-V42 which adds a second output

Happy hunting.

srb · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 Mar 2015, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: cliffy on 26 Mar 2015, 02:20 pm

Another Atlona product that may work for you.
I would chat with their tech people to confirm the max output from the coax jack.
AT-HD4-V41

If the AT-HD4-V41 S/PDIF did pass 24/96 or 24/192 from HDMI it would require an S/PDIF coaxial to TOSLINK converter as the Mac Mini only has an optical input.

Steve