[Robert C. Schult]

Hello AC’ers

This is dedicated to Lonewolf 'cause he posted here over two weeks ago and I’ve not had much time to even say “Boo!” back.

This past week, on Tuesday, Steve and I had the opportunity to spend some time auditioning Ridge Street Audio Design’s Poiema! cabling in Marble’s rig.

The primary music we used for evaluation was Dire Straight’s “Money For Nothing” chosen for it’s familiarity.

I found that, compared to Marbles reference cabling, I was impressed with several things that I felt got me closer to the music. As I mentioned to Rob I became aware of better attack in the bass, better delineation between instruments with a truer character of those instruments. I felt the venue portrayal was more convincing also. One example that stood out to me was later in the song there’s what sounded more like a woodblock further back in the mix. When we put the Poiema!s in I discovered it was a cowbell and it’s presence also now had more relevance or contribution to the music. It wasn’t like the thing suddenly became a quarter note cowbell solo playing up front of the music, it was just appropriately there.

I also noticed that Sting’s backup vocals were conveyed with more of the raw energy he imparts to his performances. It was the difference between saying “That sounds like Sting singing” or “That’s Sting singing”.

Also, during the beginning of the song, where there’s the drum solo that intro’s the lead guitar (that BTW, has a nice reverberant room affect.), the studio effects on the drums were more apparent. Typical rock recording trix there mixed for radio play…to bad. It detracted from the flow of the song though it certainly did provide a more abrupt contrast between the drum solo and lead guitar which I think was the intent. I think the engineering could have accomplished the same thing by using the same “Club” or “Large Room” ambience they used on the drums in the rest of the song instead of the bigger than necessary “Stadium” ambience used in that solo. Any thoughts here?

Those were some of my impressions. Now, contrast that to some of Marbles impressions;

“IC's (including digital), Nitro's are more analytical, the RSA's more musical. RSA's seem to emphasis the mids and lower frequencies, the Bolders the mids and highs. The Nitro's are very focused, the RSA's slightly less so. The RSA's slightly warmer, the Nitro's are a bit more cold sounding.”

“Speaker cables: Both are ruthless to upstream components. RSA's allow more bass to come through.”

So now, here’s where we could go off and engage in a debate to convince the other “I’m right and you’re wrong” that happens often. That would hardly accomplish anything of any value.

Instead, the topic of this Newsletter; We hear what’s important to us.

I’m working on the computer and focused only on the task at hand…it’s important. The wife is doing....something. Lynn comes over and announces her announcement.

Lynn: I like these lawn chairs, do you? I think they would look nice around where I want to take out that tree that’s dying. I’ll have Jonny take that tree out tomorrow and then I’ll put some Geraniums and shrubs around there too. I’m going to the garden center now. I’ll be back by 4:00 so we can have dinner with the Pates at Roscoe’s.  I told Walter so he knows when he gets home from work he has school to do before he goes anywhere tonight so I can grade his work in the morning.

Robert: Yea.

An hour later…

Robert: Jonny, where’d Mom go?

Two hours later…

Lynn: You about ready for dinner?

Robert: What? What are we doing?

Two and a half hours later…

Walter: Dad, I’m taking Marie out to the movie tonight. I’ll be home by 10:00

Robert: Is your school work done? It needs to be done before you go anywhere. You mean 10:00 PM…tonight, right?

Walter: I didn’t know it needed to be done tonight. Can’t I do it in the morning?

Robert: Weren’t you listening when your Mom…

Three days later…

Robert: What happened to the tree? Where did the flowers and shrubs come from? I like those chairs. I didn’t know we had them.

Lynn: Weren’t you listening when I…    


We hear more clearly what's important to us. Put another way, if something is not very important to us, we're less stimulated or sensitive to it. Especially when it’s contrasted against something we’re experiencing that is important to us…no?

Our experience of music is much the same way. Music impacts each of us in different ways and for different reasons. For some of us, it’s the words that are most important. For others of us, it’s how music sounds that most important.

I love the Beatle’s music. Ask me the lyrics of any of their songs and, for the most part, I can’t tell you. It’s very hard for me to “hear” lyrics in any music. I get too caught up in how the music goes and how the vocals (not the words themselves) go with the music. I like certain chords and arrangements more than others. Rhythms, patterns, dynamics, timing, melodies and harmonies and such cause music to resonate or become memorable for me. What is it for you? It may be much different than what’s important to me.

There are certain aspects of music and reproduced music’s sound that catches our attention and keeps it. It pleasantly engages us. It’s what we become sensitive to and what becomes important to us. Some of us want more bass, some of us want less bass. Some of us like a more analytical sound while others prefer a more musical sound…more detailed vs. more warmth. More intellectual vs. more emotional. I’ve just said the same thing four different ways. How have you educated yourself? Which way describes what’s important to you? Is one right and one wrong?  I used to think so.

Over the years, with the help of Steve and others, I’ve learned that the value of a broad base of experiences of different audio systems and gear is not about strengthening my position on what I think is “right” and what I think is “wrong” or even what I think is accurate. I own a pair of Reference 3As and have heard that they’re not accurate. That may be but I know what they do and a lot of what they do is important to me. It’s like after a concert I’ve been to. I come away saying "Man, that music was right!" or "Whew! that sure was accurate!" NOT! How 'bout "Man! that was good!". Have you ever noticed how sterile "right" seems to be in most things compared to the impact "good" has on anyone or anything?

I’ve learned and continue to learn how to expand and appreciate differences or what’s important for another enthusiast. I certainly have my personal preferences of what I want from my system that may not match yours. But having learned to appreciate other systems and gear, even though they don’t reflect my preferences, has enabled and continues to enable me to add to and refine my own preferences without making others wrong. Making another “Audio Brother” wrong because his system doesn’t sound like “yours” or making an “Audio Brother” more revered because he had the latest and greatest last month and now has the latest and greatest this month is not good. Whatever we can learn and however we can enhance our connection to the music is good. For that to happen, I think it’s important that we learn what’s important musically or sound wise from our own personal experiences and learn to experience and appreciate what's important to others. Then, if we desire, we can expand on what’s important to us personally and find a way to incorporate that into our system.

 

I’m working on the computer and focused only on the task at hand…it’s important. The wife is doing....something. Lynn comes over and announces her announcement.

Lynn: I like these lawn chairs, do you? I think they would look nice around where I want to take out that tree that’s dying. I’ll have Jonny take that tree out tomorrow and then I’ll put some Geraniums and shrubs around there too. I’m going to the garden center now. I’ll be back by 4:00 so we can have dinner with the Pates at Roscoe’s.  I told Walter so he knows when he gets home from work he has school to do before he goes anywhere tonight so I can grade his work in the morning.

Robert: Yea. I like those chairs too. I’ll make sure there’s gas for Jonny to use the chain saw. You might consider some shrubs that offer some height. Oh good. Thanks for reminding me. I almost forgot about dinner tonight. That’ll be fun…huh?

An hour later…

Robert: Jonny, I want you to hang close 'cause Mom’s gonna be home soon and she might need your help unloading the car.

Two hours later…

Lynn: You about ready for dinner?

Robert: Yea. Give me ten more minutes and I’m ready.

Two and a half hours later…

Walter: Dad, I’m taking Marie out to the movie tonight. I’ll be home by 10:00 tonight. Not tomorrow morning.

Robert: Is your school work done? It needs to be done before you go anywhere.

Walter: Yea, most of it. Mom said I could wait till morning on my science stuff since she wasn’t gonna have time to grade everything.

Robert: You wanna take our car tonight?

Three days later…

Robert: What happened to the tree? This looks better than you made it sound. The shorter shrubs look better than I imagined and I’m glad you thought to get 4 chairs instead the two I assumed you were getting.

Lynn: Ah Honey. Thanks. Let’s go have sex.
(c'mon, Lynn laughed!)

There is certainly much more that could be said here and you’re invited to contribute. I’d love to hear your thoughts and views on this. Many of you can probably convey this idea better than I have.

Lastly, as to how this relates to our cabling, I would say this; It’s been our endeavor to design cabling that offers very little if any discernable signature of it’s own. It’s mostly not what our cables “Do” but what they “Allow”. I want my electronics to “Do” what I bought them for and my cables to “Allow” it. Not “Do” on top of what my electronics are or are not “Doing” already.

P.S. I'm moved to tears right now as I'm watching our 40th President being laid to his final rest in CA. He wasn't always right but he was a good man who produced much good that is still felt today. He was an inspiration to me and I will miss him. Fare you well Mr. President.

[lonewolfny42]

Thanks for the update Robert ! I see your making housecalls now.

You make a very good point, people tend to hear different things and whose to say whats right or wrong....it's what sound you prefer....what you want to hear. As for cables, they should not add to the electronic's , but instead let the sound of them come thru. Neutral....is not a "bad word" ! [/list:u]

[Marbles]

Lastly, as to how this relates to our cabling, I would say this; It’s been our endeavor to design cabling that offers very little if any discernable signature of it’s own. It’s mostly not what our cables “Do” but what they “Allow”. I want my electronics to “Do” what I bought them for and my cables to “Allow” it. Not “Do” on top of what my electronics are or are not “Doing” already.
...

Robert,

I have had a little more time on your cables.

I think you have acheived your goals regarding your speaker cables.  They are incredibly resolving at all frequencies.  In fact I have never heard a more resolving speaker cable.  They also have no hint of coloration in my system.

Tuesday was a great day for me too.  Very relaxing.

[zybar]

Robert,

Engaging and entertaining as always.

It's too bad you live so far away, I know an afternoon listening to muisc and just talking (probaby about everything, not just audio) would be very enjoyable.

Any chance I could maybe convince you to come out to NY for say our monthly meeting?

George

[audiojerry]

Haven't contributed too much lately, but since I got Robert's emailed newsleterr, I've got a moment. I have been enjoying my system so intensely lately that I have sort of selfishly not had much interest exchanging thoughts on audio. a close friend recently spent time listening to my system. He last listened to it about 4 months ago. The only change I have made since then was changing over to Poiema as well as some great tubes in my Minimax. He remarked that he was stunned by how incredibly good things sounded and that it was the best he had ever heard. He wasn't the only person to express this view.  I have to give much of the credit to the Poiema.

[BikeWNC]

And you were about to trade it all in for a $500 Sony receiver a while back.        Glad your enjoying the tunes.

Andy

[satfrat]

Well Robert, first you find time for a forum of your own, then visits to Marbles pad, now it's a bimonthly newletter. Congrates on finding all this free time. Now how about visiting your Ridge Street website and bringing up to the 21 century? Have I mentioned this before? Maybe once,,,,   Regards, Robin

[Robert C. Schult]

Hi Lonewolf.

...people tend to hear different things and whose to say whats right or wrong....it's what sound you prefer....what you want to hear.

You know, I kind of struggled with saying succinctly and more precisely what I was tying to communicate. I get all these thoughts in my mind and then forget how I want to say them sometimes. Ask Deano or Steve. Kind of my concrete/random nature I guess. But you provide a great springboard for some of what I wanted to say but didn’t communicate clearly.

How have you educated yourself? I love to learn especially within the frame of what I value…like my friends, family, my relationship with God and the big J., my music, my business. Those come to mind.

I gave two scenarios of conversations that aren’t too atypical of what can happen in our home. The first sounds like my marriage up to about 10 years ago. The second sounds more like what I’ve learned and applied to the present. The former was leading to ruin. The latter is a lot richer.

I remember the first set of loudspeakers I “designed” and built…so does Steve. That was twenty years ago and O - my - God! They really were beautiful and they had bass that could be used by wrecking crews for demolition and highs that killed bats and called whales to our house! Remember the huge beached whale thing about 20 years ago? I did that.

Bass and details was all I knew (a little) about. Then I met Steve and he brought over these uglier than Sh%t! little two ways he had designed. I thought “you gotta be freakin’ kidding me!” Then I listened to them out of politeness. My jaw hit the floor! I mean Hit-The-Floor! I’ll never forget it. That was the beginning of my education and since, I’ve made it a point to continue to educate myself. I’ve made substantial effort to become more sensitive to what’s going on sonically while listening to music (when I wear my critique hat which, thank God, isn’t always) and because of that, I’ve broadened what’s important to me. It's not uncommon for me to be awakened in the middle of the night screaming and scaring the bjesus out of my wife screaming " 'd you hear that!? A mosquito just hit a tree in the woods across the street!" It's important!  Then I go back to sleep. Hi-Fi spectaculars do little to impress me but the illusion of “Real” rivets me and can bring me to tears. What tickled my ears then is way different than what engages me now.

(As a side note and speaking of rivets and tears, there’s one song particularly that can do that for me on a well assembled system. It’s listed in my "RECOMMENDED" thread on our Circle here. The CD is titled “Savannah” and the song track is #3, “First Day of Summer”. I can’t explain it but the best I know how to say what this instrumental song communicates to me is a “Calling”. A calling to the adventure where something inside of me says “Yes! you are the strong hero that slays the dragon and saves the damsel. No need to let fear stop you from the danger. Take the risk! You were made to live in a dangerous world gone wrong!” And upon my arrival through the forest, there’s one greater than me that says “Well done Son!” A little dramatic, I know but what man doesn’t deeply desire this when he looks honestly at the desire of his soul? Anyway, that’s just what that song says to me I think.

To further make my point about this newsletter’s topic if you’re following me, I wouldn’t want Marble’s rig as my main system (and not because I’m better or any stupid thing like that) but I got to hear this song on Marbles rig and…well if he would have known, I might have been a little embarrassed. Kudos Rob! Deano’s rig is another system that can do that to me.)

Another benefit I’ve discovered as a result of broadening what’s important to me is I don’t find the need to chase any audio rabbits anymore. Those damned things are harder than hell to catch and they’ll break you for sure! Instead, “It’s about the music” has truly become a reality for me instead of an intriguing cliché. Amazing how the same dynamic shows up in different places. Same thing happened in my marriage. To my shame, up until I started educating myself and broadening what was important to me about my wife and my marriage, I spent a good part of the first twelve years of my marriage secretly chasing other women. For the last ten years, I no longer have to pretend the value of who my wife is and what she means to me. Just as my music stirs me, she’s a freakin’ awesome and incredible woman who drives me up the wall sometimes…as I do her too. She rivets me.

Rob…

...I think you have achieved your goals regarding your speaker cables.
.

You couldn’t be more wrong!…wait, what the hell am I doing!?

Hi George.

It's too bad you live so far away, I know an afternoon listening to music and just talking (probably about everything, not just audio) would be very enjoyable.

I think you’re right my friend. Sometimes I wished I lived more in the thick of it all. Easier to be with more like minded friends and all. Corn, vegetable and dairy folk here have convinced me of the need to purchase the fruit of their toils but so far, I can’t get a farmer to place much priority in a good music system or spend $500.00 on a pair of “patch cords”!

I would love to come out to the country at some point. Thank you for the invite!  I can’t plan when right now so If it’s okay with you, I would like to simply invite myself when the time is good. I won’t forget, I promise.

Wow! Jerry. Thank you for such kind words. You know, I know Ridge Street has to sustain itself financially and I need to provide a living for my family but the thing that drives me to keep doing what we do here (which, as I’ve said before in so many words, isn’t pushing wire through a tube or tricking CAT-5 out) is getting feedback that validates our desire to make a positive difference for folks who love to enjoy music.

You…Selfish!? Na! c’mon Jerry. I just think you’ve been on a good learning curve for a long time. It’s helped a lot of people but there comes a point where, if you don’t get off your curve going down a straight road, you crash and burn. Been there, done that myself. You deserve to take your time and enjoy your present destination.

Robin!

…how about visiting your Ridge Street website and bringing it up to the 21 century?   Have I mentioned this before?

 LOL! Best chuckle I’ve had today! Thanks! You da man Bro! No escaping your candor. I know, I know!

[lonewolfny42]

Hello Robert,

Since I'm not a great typist , you'll find most of my posts are short and to the point...(FYI).My thinking is, as one gets older, we tend to pay more attention to our surroundings, the little details that make life go by are more visiable. Things you never thought about suddenly seem more important and noticeable. As with audio, when you start out, I'd say most do not really "hear" their system. Over time and maturity , the details come into focus...and then you really "listen".[/list:u]
As I said in my previous post, I don't believe there's a right or wrong system, just whatever your happy with ! As you say....your "Happy Place". And speaking of your "happy place"....how are your Reference 3A's? I'd bet that Larry Coryell- "Visions in Blue" cd would sound very good on them! [/list:u]

[satfrat]

N/T

[Robert C. Schult]

Hey Lonewolf.

My thinking is, as one gets older, we tend to pay more attention to our surroundings, the little details that make life go by are more visiable. Things you never thought about suddenly seem more important and noticeable. As with audio, when you start out, I'd say most do not really "hear" their system. Over time and maturity, the details come into focus...and then you really "listen".

Seems that’s another way to view it and an excellent point. I think the only thing I would add or make a distinction to is that my point was more about being pro active and your point is a more passive approach. Both are a process of time and both have their place. I know with me in general, I have to be consciously more pro active with how I mature in audio or anything else. Otherwise I’m all over the place and accomplish little more than having built a hat rack that works better to hang myself with. I still haven't learned to read instructions when I have to put something together though (like a new table saw, huh Steve?) but I've gotten better at asking for directions when I'm on my way to or lost in another town.

And speaking of your "happy place"....how are your Reference 3A's? I'd bet that Larry Coryell- "Visions in Blue" cd would sound very good on them!

You know, I haven't had my 3A's up and running here yet. I've heard some older ones at a few different places and I've heard mine (not broken in yet) at another place but not here yet. The carpenter's done with the listening room and the new RSAD quarters but there's still some odds and ends left yet. Just finished painting and carpeting is coming Monday for my new office and RSAD quarters. Carpeting's already in the listening room. I'm gonna love that room. It's a very comfortable, warm and intimate room…7.5'H x 12'W or D x 19'D or W. I've got four dedicated AC lines running into the room using 10ga cryo-tempered solid core. One AC line for basically three different lighting affects. Two dedicated AC lines running off the positive AC side for audio and another dedicated AC line running off the negative AC side for audio. This will give me balanced AC for anything I run as mono blocks like all my amps and my mono block phono amps. Neutrals are all tied together at the box to keep potentials the same but the ground will be via a 10' ground rod driven into the earth right behind one of the walls in the room. Each audio outlet will be star grounded to this rod and I'll also have the option of lifting the ground on any outlet. For now, all outlets, outlet hook ups and breakers have been treated with Maple Shade's "Silver of Olay contact and facial(?) cream" You wouldn't believe what this stuff does when I treat my face with it and kiss my wife! I've already gone through eight jars! BTW, using silver shavings or shrapnel and Crisco doesn't work real well. I cut the hell out of my face when I applied it and my wife's face when I kissed her.

Hmmm ....that gives me an idea though. For real. Lest someone steal my idea before I try it, I'll keep it to myself. I'll report back with what I did in due time. I wouldn't be surprised if what I'm thinking is why the Walker SST suff is almost twice the price. Oh, and while we're talking about headphones folks, if you're into those "in ear" type headphones from Shure?  Buy them from a musical instrument store. Not an audio shop or the such. I paid $75.00 for the E2 Earphones (which I think is still a little steep but they work great for monitoring or recording when I'm doing the percussive thing) at my local music store. You'll pay anywhere from $100.00 to I think like $149.00 if you buy them audiophile approved from audio dealers.

I was just playing your "Visions in Blue" Friday while I was doing some correspondence. Still haven't played it on any reference gear here. Wished I would have thought to take it with me Tuesday to Robs. I will report back to you in time. I haven't forgotten your request. The music is great. The guitar playing reminds me of some of Special EFX's older stuff which I like a lot.

[Steve Rothermel]

Marbles,

Great time at casa Marbles! Thanks once again for the music and another opportunity to watch my pool balls be the last to occupy the (now- level) table!

I have to say, I agree with Robert Schult - not my type of system for the things I tend to focus on such as emotional directness (hard to define, I know) and that rich, three-D soundstage that allows me to feel the performers move about in the recording space.

Not to sound like a kiss butt, but I found it fascinating how quickly I heard changes when swapping out cables/interconnects. That is tesimony to how high-rez is your system. To dovetail onto what was brought up by Robert and then expounded on by Lonewolf, there was a time when I enjoyed a different kind of system. I built it for revealing detail, ruler-flat room response, very extended bass and treble, and a precision in finding out what every component was doing in the system. That was the shit to me. I thought I couldn't be any happier. Funny how things change when you shift musical tast/get older/slow down in life/get influenced by all the different ways others enjoy their music. And how we all grow in so many, many different ways. I found out I am and have always been, the kind of person that stops to see all the "minutia" most others take for granted in life. So I learned to enjoy the music before I determined what I needed to change in my system (a big thanks to Robert for that). Both ways of listening were always present and self-evident, but I chose to switch my priorities.

So, I truly don't give a damn if your twisted pretzles are imposters. Kind of obvious, when I get called out for lifting a handful. Or three. Sue me.

[satfrat]

Hey Lonewolf.

You know, I haven't had my 3A's up and running here yet. I've heard some older ones at a few different places and I've heard mine (not broken in yet) at another place but not here yet. The carpenter's done with the listening room and the new RSAD quarters but there's still some odds and ends left yet. Just finished painting and carpeting is coming Monday for my new office and RSAD quarters. Carpeting's already in the listening room. I'm gonna love that room. It's a very comfortable, warm an ...

                                        Thanks Robert for sharing the particuliars of your newly acquired listening room, it makes for pleasent daydreaming for yours truely. Seems that we have somewhat the same room dimensions. (7'H x11'w x 17'd) I personally go with the short wall because of my hometheater affiliation along with my multichannel preference. As is PsychicAnimal's fortay, I'm envious of your power distribution and would love to have the means to do the same. I really wish I could contribute more here but I'm a 52 year old novice, I know what I like but I'm a lousy cook! Regards, Robin

[Robert C. Schult]

Steve...

...Funny how things change when you shift musical tast/get older/slow down in life/get influenced...

Okay, I give up. What the heck is a "tast"?

For the benefit of others, what's the latest on the Sason Ltd. loudspeakers? Will they have "tast" in them?

[satfrat]

N/T

[Robert C. Schult]

Robin...

 ...I know what I like but I'm a lousy cook!

If you're trying to use your gear to cook with, you may have more problems than considering yourself a "novice"!  

[Steve Rothermel]

I whistle while I do all of my work with the loudspeakers and other audio gear, so, obviously, I meant to say musical "tasks."

Update: The Sason Ltd is on track for production. Unfortunately, the train is late!

Some unforeseen events: computer death and subsequent replacement and setup; a vendor that promised the stars, a free ride to get there, and then (after two weeks of more promises) decided he didn't have what it takes to meet my requirements and backed out; a decision to delay so as to incorporate a new version of the 4-inch thick material used for the front baffle.

For the front baffle I am utilizing a nonresonant man-made material which is extremely dense and heavy. This material is not, to my knowledge, used in other loudspeakers. It is an expensive and much better choice than the typical build-up of MDF panels. I have this material CNC machined for the Sason Ltd. This material is known at Ridge Street as Rothboard and can be used in many other appllications.

[Marbles]

Isn't it about time for a new news letter?

This thread is still reffered to in your auto response email.

[Robert C. Schult]

...Yep. I'm thinking later next week.