[Alwayswantmore]

Hi all, I'm a long-time user of RWA gear (back to one of the first Sig 30s). At the same time I also discovered Omega Single drivers, so the audio world as I knew it has not been the same since.

Recently I acquired a Decware flea amp (2 watts into 4 ohms). Its SET, etc. I run Omega Super 6 Alnico monitors + Omega Deep Hemp powered sub. I listen in a small, but well (acoustically) treated room. Listening is near-field, and I favor female vocals. With the Super 6s over 90 db sensitivity, an SET flea amp is a natural candidate for my situation.

My move to the Zen was driven by economics. I now spend very little time listening, and I wanted to free up some cash to purchase a new American-made drum kit.

Reading about the Zen my expectations were very high. There's always that hope that a different technology might be even better than the one I have. Many claims (researching on the internet) that the Zen outperforms many / most amps at many times the price. As I've learned, this claim does not hold up against Vinnie's Signature 15 or 16.

A couple weeks ago I sent Vinnie an e-mail with my impressions. He told me to feel free to share my experience, so after a few more weeks of listening -- to make sure I didn't change my mind with more use -- here goes.

Bear in mind this is not a direct AB, but I'm confident I have enough time on the unit to feel this is an accurate characterization of what I am hearing. I also don't know if a few hundred more hours of burn in or tube upgrades might change my impressions. But prior to purchase, I had several phone calls with Decware to make sure I followed their break in procedure, and they recommended their stock tubes as very good sounding for this unit.

The unit is paired with a RWA Isabellina DAC and Macbook.

One last note, there is a price delta (as noted in my e-mail below). So I share this only as one man's experience of the grass is not always greener...

Hi Vinnie. I've finally had a chance to listen the last couple days.
I'm going to be happy with the new set up. It's a step down from what
I had, but less investment, so that's to be expected. The good news is
I have finally selected an American made drum set, and I hope to order
this week, so its all coming together. As far as the amp...

1 watt is way more than needed for Omegas in a small room, so no issue
there. The Tone is very nice. Probably mostly to advantage of
non-audiophile recordings. Overall it lacks some detail compared to
the Sig 16. Also the image is not as well defined, and stage not as
deep or wide. The subtle sounds of a sax player's embouchure is another
place it lacks compared to the Sig 16... there is less texture to the
instrument. Also it does not feel like it digs as deep into the
recording. So for about $900 and efficient speakers, it's a fine
listening amp. But when you read how everybody thinks it's
holographic, etc., IMO you have it beat.

(New: And after a few weeks of listening, I'll add that in terms of tone (a satisfying sound), the 16 and Zen are very close. When it comes to sounding like real live instruments / vocals, where timbre really comes into play, I think the 16 leads by a significant margin.)

So again, for a modest investment it's a very nice sound system.

Kent


 

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Kent,

Thanks for posting this.  Interesting comparisons.  Without the Renaissance Edition tube input stage of the Sig 16, I'm thinking you
would have preferred the Zen.  But combining the tube input stage + MOSFET output + LiFePO4... it should be hard to beat when
under 20 watts is enough.  Just by heavily biased opinion! 

It sounds like your passion for making music has taken over your passion for listening to recorded music!   

But I'm glad you still enjoy listening and your Isabellina dac / Zen are playing nice together. 

Thanks again,

Vinnie

[CSI]

(New: And after a few weeks of listening, I'll add that in terms of tone (a satisfying sound), the 16 and Zen are very close. When it comes to sounding like real live instruments / vocals, where timbre really comes into play, I think the 16 leads by a significant margin.)

So again, for a modest investment it's a very nice sound system.

Kent

Just curious, did you do most of your listening/comparing with the stock tubes in the RWA gear? I have a similar system (Sig 16, Bellina DAC, Omega Super 3XRS) and found that tube rolling in both units makes a difference. I have heard my speakers with a Dared 2A3 amp and, though it does some lovely things, the RWA combo is still superior - especially with Dario miniwatts or Amperex Pinch Waist 6922's rolled in.

[Alwayswantmore]

Just curious, did you do most of your listening/comparing with the stock tubes in the RWA gear? I have a similar system (Sig 16, Bellina DAC, Omega Super 3XRS) and found that tube rolling in both units makes a difference. I have heard my speakers with a Dared 2A3 amp and, though it does some lovely things, the RWA combo is still superior - especially with Dario miniwatts or Amperex Pinch Waist 6922's rolled in.

Yes, NOS tube Sig 15 and 16. And yes, it made a big difference... Amperex 7308 tubes. 1965 production

[OzarkTom]

I may be biased, but I have found tube amps with output transformers generally have a lack of detail which is very important in the amount of soundstage that I hear.

[Alwayswantmore]

I may be biased, but I have found tube amps with output transformers generally have a lack of detail which is very important in the amount of soundstage that I hear.

This amp is suppose to have very fast output tubes, but I listened last night for over an hour, and what you describe is what it's missing. It has a very pleasant sound, but compared to what I'm used to, lacks a fair amount of detail, lacks "air" between instruments, and the depth / width in the soundstage is more constricted. Maybe over time I'll try some different input tubes to see if that improves sound. But I moved here wanting to pocket some cash, so I need to resist putting a bunch of money into trying other tubes 

[DaveC113]

Well, you can't expect a cheap (relatively) Decware amp to stand up to a "good" amp of any type... It's built to a fairly low price point and good parts are not cheap, which means the Decware cannot afford to use good parts. With a SET, a lot of the sound is determined by the OPTs, coupling caps, and power supply, if you want good quality and there is no way to build an amp under $1k, in fact about $1k is what the parts would need to cost. Unfortunately, no free lunch for any amp type, implementation is more important imo.

[Alwayswantmore]

Well, you can't expect a cheap (relatively) Decware amp to stand up to a "good" amp of any type... It's built to a fairly low price point and good parts are not cheap, which means the Decware cannot afford to use good parts. With a SET, a lot of the sound is determined by the OPTs, coupling caps, and power supply, if you want good quality and there is no way to build an amp under $1k, in fact about $1k is what the parts would need to cost. Unfortunately, no free lunch for any amp type, implementation is more important imo.

Then my conclusion is that it is a nice sounding amp for the money, but marketing claims on their web site might be a bit aggressive. I wanted to pocket money, and that's what I did. So no harm no foul. Like I said in an earlier post, I spend WAY more time with live music than I do listening to 2ch. And truth be told, I'm also spoiled. Most people would think my system sounds fantastic, so it's all a matter of perspective.

My experience has been shared. I CAN'T WAIT to get my new drums! And life is pretty darn good. Peace 

[DaveC113]

Yeah, I agree the Decware is a very good amp for the money, just the comparison to a RWA is a little bit apples - oranges as the RWA is simply a higher end unit.

IF you want to mod the Decware it would be very easy, it's a very simple design.... you could make that amp 10x better than it is stock if you wanted to.

[Wind Chaser]

Recently I acquired a Decware flea amp (2 watts into 4 ohms).

Reading about the Zen my expectations were very high. There's always that hope that a different technology might be even better than the one I have. Many claims (researching on the internet) that the Zen outperforms many / most amps at many times the price.

The Decware Zen has been around for many years. Over the course of time there have been quite a few variations / updates to the Decware Zen. A more recent version is quite a different animal from the earlier versions. About 5 years ago the amp took a radical turn with the Hazen mod. Subsequent releases have been even better.  So without knowing which version of the amp you are comparing, the comparison with Vinnie's amp isn't very meaningful.

[Alwayswantmore]

It was new from Decware, so the current version.

[Wind Chaser]

How many hours have you put on it?

[Alwayswantmore]

How many hours have you put on it?

Not really count at this point. When I originally got the amp I followed Dave's recommendation of (I think it was) 7 on 7 off cycles, for about a week. Now just a few hours listening and some moved on DVD.