Which is better?

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Doublej

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Which is better?
« on: 12 Jan 2014, 03:39 pm »
I am finally ready to pull the trigger on a subwoofer. Had my eyes on a Hsu VTF-1 10" one but when I look a the price, for a $100 more I could get two 8" subwoofers.

This leads me to the question, are two smaller subwoofers better than one larger one?

The purpose is for music.

jimdgoulding

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jan 2014, 03:52 pm »
I dunno JJ, but yesterday I listened to a friend's system in a huge room via some large 3-way floorstanders with twin 10" woofers and was floored!  My small speakers with twin 5" drivers and a small sub (on loan) image like the dickens but sounded like runts compared to those monsters.  Boy, how they filled the room with a symphony orchestra!

bladesmith

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Re: Which is better?
« Reply #2 on: 12 Jan 2014, 04:01 pm »
I would opt for a single,  larger woofer, than two smaller ones.


WireNut

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #3 on: 12 Jan 2014, 05:07 pm »
After 30 years of having different sub woofer/bass cabinets, if I did it all over again I would definitely go with a push-pull or isobaric design.


   



« Last Edit: 12 Jan 2014, 06:12 pm by WireNut »

WireNut

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #4 on: 12 Jan 2014, 05:10 pm »
I like two bass cabinets/subs but one works fine if crossing around 100Hz summed.
Depends on your room size also or how far away you sit from it.





ctviggen

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Re: Which is better?
« Reply #5 on: 12 Jan 2014, 05:33 pm »
It depends what you want.  If you want more accurate bass response, having two subs allows you to move them to two different positions and therefore improve accuracy of the bass response.  However, a single larger woofer may be able to provide more "oompf" if that's what you're looking for.   (Personally, I can easily pick out the location of a single subwoofer, which destroys my sense of imaging; but you could put the sub between the front two speakers and that might ameliorate this effect.) 

When I had two subs at relatively random positions (with furniture, it's never really random), and crossed them over relatively low, I couldn't determine where they were.  When I had a single sub in the corner, I could easily localize it.  I always wanted to take the time to place two subs in the best positions as per measurements, but never had the time for such an analysis, so I just put them in the best places I could (one along one wall closer to a corner and one on the other wall closer to the middle of the wall; would've liked to put one of them further into the room and not along the wall, but wasn't able to do that).

JLM

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Re: Which is better?
« Reply #6 on: 12 Jan 2014, 09:31 pm »
According to 'swam' theory, reference Floyd E. Toole's "Sound Reproduction," multiple scattered subs is the only way to produce flat bass response in-room.

In theory (and we all know audiophiles only follow theory just so far) imaging shouldn't matter with one sub versus two (if crossed over "low enough").

Beyond that is spl and F3 issues which should be easy to compare the numbers.

mlundy57

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Re: Which is better?
« Reply #7 on: 12 Jan 2014, 11:19 pm »
I prefer the direct servo subs from Rythmik and GR-Research. Currently the smallest sub offered has a single 12" driver but a new version using dual 8" drivers is currently under development and may not be too far from ready.

The dual 8" drivers are still in a single enclosure so even though you have two drivers you don't have two separate subs.  A single 8" driver is not going to be able to play as low as a single 12" or dual 8" drivers. So part of the question is how low do you want your sub to go? The lowest frequencies are not just for movies. If you like to listen to music such as full orchestral and/or organ then the lowest frequencies are important.

I currently use a single Rythmik F12 in the living room crossed over at 60Hz. I cannot localize the sub, it plays flat to 20Hz, is -3dB in the mid teens, the bass is fast, clean and articulate and provides all the umph I could wish for, even with action movies.  When it comes to music these are far and away the best subs I've ever heard. I had been auditioning subs in the $2,500 - $4,000 range when I learned about the Rythmik subs. The $874 Rythmik F12 won. It wasn't that it was the best bang for the buck, it was the best sub.

Currently, Rythmik subs start at $599. You can buy complete subs from Rythmik with either Rythmik or GR-Research drivers (they both use the same amp) or you can get DIY kits from both Rythmik and GR-Research for even less.

While I have always heard that with subs,more is better, smoother, more balanced, etc. I tend to take a more frugal approach. Buy one good sub and set it up the best you can for your system/room. If you are happy with the result you're done. If not, then add the second sub. 

Mike


Freo-1

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #8 on: 13 Jan 2014, 12:03 am »
Check this one out:

http://hometheaterreview.com/svs-sb13-ultra-subwoofer-reviewed/

It is one of the best for music out there. 

JohnR

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #9 on: 13 Jan 2014, 01:17 pm »
This leads me to the question, are two smaller subwoofers better than one larger one?

I think it's a bit difficult to answer this question in general. Without a serious budget constraint, yes, get two or more as long as you don't compromise low-frequency response. BUT, the fact is that positioning makes such a difference that it can easily swamp differences in subwoofer size/power/number/etc. The only way you can really know what differences are made with positioning is to measure it. So my suggestion would be buy one good sub with decent low frequency response, then get measurement gear and go through the effort to figure out how your room behaves at low frequencies. Then you will know if you need more subs (or not).

charmerci

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #10 on: 14 Jan 2014, 04:25 am »
Check this one out:

http://hometheaterreview.com/svs-sb13-ultra-subwoofer-reviewed/

It is one of the best for music out there.


The OP's budget seems to be about $500 bucks and that SVS is $1600.  :scratch:

JLM

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Re: Which is better?
« Reply #11 on: 14 Jan 2014, 10:23 am »
This is probably too cheap for you, but I found it while searching last fall:

Martin Logan Dynamo 300: 8 inch ported, 32 - 150 Hz, 75 watts, $130, well reviewed.  At that price you could buy 4 of them and have your subwoofer swam.

http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Dynamo-300-Theater-Subwoofer/dp/B004LRPXAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389694817&sr=8-1&keywords=martin+logan+subwoofer

mcgsxr

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #12 on: 14 Jan 2014, 02:40 pm »
For music, I would bet that the 2 subs would end up sounding better, as they would allow for a better placement (assuming WAF is not a concern).

That said, I am very happy with the 1 sub I have, a DIY design using 2 x 12 woofers and a 500w BASH amp.  Guess I was lucky with the placement, as it is buried in a wall in my basement, and it integrates well with the mains I have.

BobM

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #13 on: 14 Jan 2014, 04:33 pm »
In my experience, if you want dinosaur stomps and home theater excitement, them get the big sub and stick it in the corner for maximum impact.

If you want quick, tuneful, musical bass then get the 2 smaller subs and keep them out of the corners.

Also, don't forget that subs are there for support purposes in the extreme bottom end. Not for mid-bass, so they should be crossed over the the speakers accordingly. Look at JA's speaker measurements in Stereophile reviews. There should not be any overlap in the crossover regions, meaning set the crossover lower than the bottom end of the speaker, not higher.

Example, if the speaker starts rolling off at 50Hz then set the sub for 30-35Hz and adjust the sub volume so it sounds smooth and linear. Don't set the sub crossover at 70Hz in this case - that is just wrong and will likely cause low end smearing.

Ericus Rex

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #14 on: 14 Jan 2014, 05:01 pm »
In my experience, if you want dinosaur stomps and home theater excitement, them get the big sub and stick it in the corner for maximum impact.

If you want quick, tuneful, musical bass then get the 2 smaller subs and keep them out of the corners.


+1

milford3

Re: Which is better?
« Reply #15 on: 14 Jan 2014, 06:58 pm »
In budget with Aperion 10D.  I own the 8D an just love it.  The 8D fills my large room with ease.  I can just dream what the 10D would sound like.

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers-by-type/home-theater-subwoofers/bravus-ii-10d-powered-subwoofer

bladesmith

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Re: Which is better?
« Reply #16 on: 14 Jan 2014, 07:17 pm »
This is probably too cheap for you, but I found it while searching last fall:

Martin Logan Dynamo 300: 8 inch ported, 32 - 150 Hz, 75 watts, $130, well reviewed.  At that price you could buy 4 of them and have your subwoofer swam.

http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-Dynamo-300-Theater-Subwoofer/dp/B004LRPXAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389694817&sr=8-1&keywords=martin+logan+subwoofer

Oh yea,  8)

bladesmith

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