[ricardojoa]

Are everyone pairing their power tube amps with high impedance and high efficient speakers?
I have a pair of low efficiency and low impedance speaker and that i want to pair with a  tube amp.
I dont listen to rediculous loud level and i could get 50 watts integrated amps for decent price.
Im not sure if i should go with SS amps or tube integrated.
I already have a tube preamps which pairing with my avr resulted in a loss os sound quality.

[Ericus Rex]

50 tube watts is plenty for most speakers.  I ran a pair of 88db speakers with 35 tube watts for years with no signs of stress.  What kind of sensitivity and impedance are you talking about with your speakers?

[rockadanny]

No. I am driving my 87dB, 8 ohm (minimum 6.5 ohm) speakers with a pair of 45 Watt SET monoblocks. So not high efficiency or impedance, but not too low impedance, no cross-over, and no nasty phase angles to make them difficult to be driven.

[ricardojoa]

50 tube watts is plenty for most speakers.  I ran a pair of 88db speakers with 35 tube watts for years with no signs of stress.  What kind of sensitivity and impedance are you talking about with your speakers?

Hi,
 this is the impedance curve


and the sensitivity is 85

[AJinFLA]

Are everyone pairing their power tube amps with high impedance and high efficient speakers?
I have a pair of low efficiency and low impedance speaker and that i want to pair with a  tube amp.

Hi Richardo,

"Tube" amps come in a wide variety, much like SS. Some have low output impedance (via some form of feedback), similar to most SS amps...and will be largely unaffected by the impedance curve of the loudspeaker.
Others (like most "SET", etc.), have high output impedance/minimal/no feedback. When connected to a (typical) loudspeakers varying impedance curve, there will be a "EQ" effect, that some feel adds "excitement", "revealingness", etc, etc. to the proceedings.
If you wish for your amp to amplify and skip the special effects stuff, seek a tube amp with low output impedance, using some form of feedback. Many out there in your power (50w) range, that should easily drive your speakers, though obviously not at concert levels and possibly with some waveform distortion, if the program material has high dynamic range (like some classical, etc.).
Good luck.

cheers,

AJ

[ricardojoa]

Hi Richardo,

"Tube" amps come in a wide variety, much like SS. Some have low output impedance (via some form of feedback), similar to most SS amps...and will be largely unaffected by the impedance curve of the loudspeaker.
Others (like most "SET", etc.), have high output impedance/minimal/no feedback. When connected to a (typical) loudspeakers varying impedance curve, there will be a "EQ" effect, that some feel adds "excitement", "revealingness", etc, etc. to the proceedings.
If you wish for your amp to amplify and skip the special effects stuff, seek a tube amp with low output impedance, using some form of feedback. Many out there in your power (50w) range, that should easily drive your speakers, though obviously not at concert levels and possibly with some waveform distortion, if the program material has high dynamic range (like some classical, etc.).
Good luck.

cheers,

AJ

Hi AJ,
Thank you for the info.
Thats a really informative piece of knowledge thati certainly dont hear specically talked about.

[Quiet Earth]

I don't think "EQ effects" are the reason why people like single ended triodes so much. That is a silly notion.

I think people who like them like them because they are the simplest amplifier that you can possibly use. They like them because they do the least amount of harm to the music. They are the closest amplifier to having a direct connection to the source because of their inherent simplicity. They have very low harmonic distortion as long as they are used within their low power limits, and what harmonics are there are sympathetic to the music. SETs don't split the phase of the signal and then try to put it back together like humpy Dumpty. The time continuum is not broken. SETs typically have the least amount of parts in their signal path. SETs have zero crossover distortion because they have to be biased into class A in order to work at all. (Just like your favorite single ended preamplifier, if you have an active preamp at all.)

The fact that SETs have a higher output impedance than a push pull amplifier or any amplifier with feedback just means that you need to design (or buy) a speaker that takes that issue into account in the first place. That's all that means. Big deal.

The only real problem with single ended power amplifiers is that there are fewer and fewer people left on the planet that know how to make a speaker that can take advantage of SETs simplicity and beautiful sound. It's a damn shame. A dying art.

Oh well, such is life and progress.

[roscoeiii]

What speaker is that, out of curiousity?

The impedance doesn't look too bad. No brutally low values. Doesn't look like it dips below 4 ohms.

[ricardojoa]

It is selah tempesta.

[Ericus Rex]

"5 ohms nominal, 4 ohms minimum" in the text of the graph so 50 watts should be ear-splittingly loud.  I'd use the 4 ohm tap on the amp.

[sebrof]

I don't think "EQ effects" are the reason why people like single ended triodes so much. That is a silly notion.

I think people who like them like them because they are the simplest amplifier that you can possibly use. They like them because they do the least amount of harm to the music. They are the closest amplifier to having a direct connection to the source because of their inherent simplicity. They have very low harmonic distortion as long as they are used within their low power limits, and what harmonics are there are sympathetic to the music. SETs don't split the phase of the signal and then try to put it back together like humpy Dumpty. The time continuum is not broken. SETs typically have the least amount of parts in their signal path. SETs have zero crossover distortion because they have to be biased into class A in order to work at all. (Just like your favorite single ended preamplifier, if you have an active preamp at all.)

The fact that SETs have a higher output impedance than a push pull amplifier or any amplifier with feedback just means that you need to design (or buy) a speaker that takes that issue into account in the first place. That's all that means. Big deal.

The only real problem with single ended power amplifiers is that there are fewer and fewer people left on the planet that know how to make a speaker that can take advantage of SETs simplicity and beautiful sound. It's a damn shame. A dying art.

Oh well, such is life and progress.

Great post, couldn't agree more.

With any amp it's all about speaker matching. If the amp/speaker match is causing "EQ Effects" then it's just as valid to say you shouldn't use those particular speakers because they are causing EQ Effects.

As for the Selahs, I believe if the chart showed the phase vs. the impedance one could make a more informed judgement. I would also look at what type of amplifiers the manufacturer pairs with his speakers at shows, in reviews, etc.

[ricardojoa]

Great post, couldn't agree more.

With any amp it's all about speaker matching. If the amp/speaker match is causing "EQ Effects" then it's just as valid to say you shouldn't use those particular speakers because they are causing EQ Effects.

As for the Selahs, I believe if the chart showed the phase vs. the impedance one could make a more informed judgement. I would also look at what type of amplifiers the manufacturer pairs with his speakers at shows, in reviews, etc.

The point that AJ is making is that, just like SS amp, tubes amps can have vary desings. Some of which that the amp will have greater interaction with the speaker like for example SET amps, where the impedance curve can affect the sound of a speaker. But it is very difficult to compare speakers with different impedance curve and come up will a conclusion of the effect on sound since the two speakers are different. What one can come up, is that certain impedance curve can have a effect on sound. That just my understanding.



Anyway, im think i could even get up to 100 watts for a few hundred dollars more on the integrated tube amp. The Integrated that im looking is the cayin a88t or A100T. Im from the southern China, so theses units are much cheaper then the ones selling at overseas.

[AJinFLA]

Some of which that the amp will have greater interaction with the speaker like for example SET amps, where the impedance curve can affect the sound of a speaker.

Exactly. That is a fact, not opinion or conjecture. High output impedance + varying impedance of typical dynamic driver(s) speaker = eq effects on FR. That is precisely why, if I design for SETs etc, the speaker will have very flat impedance. Verifiable, measurable.

Anyway, im think i could even get up to 100 watts for a few hundred dollars more on the integrated tube amp. The Integrated that im looking is the cayin a88t or A100T. Im from the southern China, so theses units are much cheaper then the ones selling at overseas.

Have you considered a hybrid?
Something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAQIN-VK-2100-Stereo-Hybrid-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-/131099344975? Very inexpensive, plenty power, nice amp. Yes, I have one.
Just a thought.

cheers,

AJ

[ricardojoa]

Exactly. That is a fact, not opinion or conjecture. High output impedance + varying impedance of typical dynamic driver(s) speaker = eq effects on FR. That is precisely why, if I design for SETs etc, the speaker will have very flat impedance. Verifiable, measurable.
Have you considered a hybrid?
Something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAQIN-VK-2100-Stereo-Hybrid-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-/131099344975? Very inexpensive, plenty power, nice amp. Yes, I have one.
Just a thought.

cheers,

AJ

I initially thought about going with a SS amp after getting a tube preamplifier. Currently i have it pair with the avr and the results are a little worry. So i thought i would just go straight with a tube amp or integrated. The one i was looking at can be used as a power amp.
The yaqin unit is certainly an option at that prive point.
What about the integrated you like about. Im looking to get the tube warmth and open midrange.

[Quiet Earth]

The point that AJ is making is that, just like SS amp, tubes amps can have vary desings. Some of which that the amp will have greater interaction with the speaker like for example SET amps, where the impedance curve can affect the sound of a speaker.

Hi guys,

Ok yeah, I went back and re-read AJ's original post and it makes sense to me now that his intention was to steer you away from SET amplifiers for your particular speaker. My apologies for misreading that. I got caught up on the "special effects" remark I guess. Sorry about that AJ.

I do agree with sebrof though. It's sort of a chicken or the egg kind of situation. You can just as easily blame the speaker instead of the amp when you put a system together. And vice versa. It's always best to have a speaker in mind when you buy an amp, and an amp in mind when you choose a speaker. Ultimately the two should be made for each other.  But when the speaker comes first, the amp will get all of the scrutiny.

I'm sure you will find a nice amplifier. I also agree with Ericus Rex.  I don't think you need all of that power if you are in a small room and listen at moderate levels. Maybe you can find something of higher quality at lesser wattage for the same budget.