BDP2 with USB in and out a bad thing?

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Norton

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BDP2 with USB in and out a bad thing?
« on: 5 May 2015, 09:24 am »
There seems to be a received wisdom (at least over on Computer Audiophile)that for the sake of SQ, a computer playing  to a DAC via USB shouldn't have any other USB devices attached.

Wondered if there was any basis to this and, if so, if it also applies to the BDP; e.g. if using USB as an output is it  best not to use a USB hard drive or thumbdrive?

R. Daneel

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Re: BDP2 with USB in and out a bad thing?
« Reply #1 on: 5 May 2015, 10:36 am »
There seems to be a received wisdom (at least over on Computer Audiophile)that for the sake of SQ, a computer playing  to a DAC via USB shouldn't have any other USB devices attached.

Wondered if there was any basis to this and, if so, if it also applies to the BDP; e.g. if using USB as an output is it  best not to use a USB hard drive or thumbdrive?

During my research, I paid close attention to the differences between the BDP-2 and BDP-1. BDP-1 is more affordable though still quite expensive in Croatia. BDP-2 cost significantly more and offered identical audio quality.

However, I was puzzled by Stereophile's conclusion that BDP-2, in some fashion, has a smoother top end than the BDP-1. How could that be when everything but the power supply is the same? But even Stereophile did not care to back this with measurements so my conclusion is that for all intents and purposes, they are the same.

What does this have to do with your question you ask? The bottom line is, I wouldn't worry too much about what others say. Computers have switch-mode power supplies and frankly, I doubt it would make any difference if you have one or two drives connected to the computer. The reason for that is that computer alone has numerous systems and subsystems, all of them working constantly and draining power from the same source. I this maze of interference, it would be impossible to tell the specific noise you are hearing comes from this or that.

In the prospect of BDP, it makes no difference I think because it's power supply is robuts and it has a linear regulator ensuring the system runs on exact voltage and current numbers. I certainly have not noticed any difference. I spent a good deal of time and money converting the PC into a silent component dedicated to audio playback. Still, the introduction of BDP-1 in my life was a dramatic one and just like that, it completely won me over with a noticeable and substantial improvement in audio quality. Clearly, the power supply, high-quality circuit boards and components in the BDP allowed for this and this is something an ordinary PC cannot do. I've learned that using a PC for such an undertake is destined to fail from the start because the very template is wrong - starting with the computers mother-board with insufficiently thick copper lanes and inadequately separated pathways to the average component quality chosen solely on the basis of conformity with the required specifications and perhaps, temperature requirements. And this is only the beginning...

I am generally very enthusiastic about computers and it is a good thing what people are doing because you can get a good playback system for less money but there are better solutions out there and Bryston is one of them.

Hope this helps!
Cheers!
Antun

Norton

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Re: BDP2 with USB in and out a bad thing?
« Reply #2 on: 5 May 2015, 11:50 am »
Thanks Antun,

It's reassuring to see someone who has invested time and money in computer replay coming out in favour of the BDP.

I'm non-technical, but I think the argument over on  CA concerns not having more than one device on the USB Bus  - does that make sense?

R. Daneel

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Re: BDP2 with USB in and out a bad thing?
« Reply #3 on: 5 May 2015, 12:53 pm »
It makes sense in a way but I doubt it has to do with the number of drives. It has more to do with the type of a drive plugged into it. Hard drives have several motors inside them - spindle motors, motors that movies the head assembly and a motor that lifts and lowers the head. All of this has to be powered by the drive's interface which in itself is noisy. In addition, the current draw is never constant as it depends on the state of drive - what it is doing at the moment. If you have two of them, then they will interact because they will be powered by the same USB hub inside the computer and it will be powered by the same power supply. None of this is separately regulated. But all of this is academic and like I said, with computers you never really know what is causing what. What would be great if it would be possible to "detach" the management side of the computer - the mother-board, CPU and RAM from the audio side - computer sound-card and the storage. If these were to be indepentently powered, then interesting things might happen.

Bryston did it in a way because they really "minimized" the management side of things so the OS serves to play the audio and nothing more. This allows for use of low-powered CPUs that consume less power and are therefore easier to regulate. It is essentially a computer built to audiophile standards. So it works and behaves like a computer and  is even built like one (mother-board, CPU, RAM) but because it was designed from the start with audio in mind, it is on a different level of manufacture which yields excellent measured performance. That's the way I see it.

The end result will be dependent on your system of course. Let me tell you, I was into CD replay for years and spent countless hours reading and doing research on how to build a perfect CD transport with a perfect square-wave trace on an oscilloscope. Finally, I was able to buy a specific Pioneer DVD player that had memory buffer and an excellent performance on the 'scope. I then spent more money to get it tuned with a linear power supply and better clocking. Everything seemed nice on the 'scope but... I just couldn't detect any differences between it and my old Denon DCD-1420 CD player. How could this be? I had reasons to believe it was due to Pioneer's reconstruction filter that serves as an error-correction for damaged CDs and DVDs. It lead me to Cyrus CD transports which employ their own custom servo and use no off-the-shelf error-correction only to be disappointed again because it not only sounded equal, it couldn't read 80% of the CD-Rs and even 40% of prerecorded CDs without a single blemish on them. Then I went to computer audio and learned a thing or two and finally discovered why all of my previous attempts have failed.

Sorry, I got carried away!!!

Cheers! :thumb:
Antun

unincognito

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Re: BDP2 with USB in and out a bad thing?
« Reply #4 on: 7 May 2015, 01:58 pm »
There seems to be a received wisdom (at least over on Computer Audiophile)that for the sake of SQ, a computer playing  to a DAC via USB shouldn't have any other USB devices attached.

Wondered if there was any basis to this and, if so, if it also applies to the BDP; e.g. if using USB as an output is it  best not to use a USB hard drive or thumbdrive?

I think what they maybe trying to get at is giving priority to the USB DAC on the USB BUS, I have only seen this to be a problem with a handful of USB DAC's.  Most USB DAC's operate fine when used with a USB hard drive.

Cheers,
Chris

gdayton

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Re: BDP2 with USB in and out a bad thing?
« Reply #5 on: 7 May 2015, 07:20 pm »
I think what they maybe trying to get at is giving priority to the USB DAC on the USB BUS, I have only seen this to be a problem with a handful of USB DAC's.  Most USB DAC's operate fine when used with a USB hard drive.

Cheers,
Chris
Specifically, USB DACs that use Streamlength seem to require that they are the only devices present on the USB.