[raysracing]

I am always tweaking them and not enjoying them.  I am not deaf, anyone who hears them knows they are special, but in my cave and with my limited budget I cannot get them to image the way I want which is basically haunting. I know a lot to ask with a low budget, till I bought the $99 Pioneer BS-22-LR's and was blown away by the way the singer sounded like they were standing in the room, like they rendered height and position to the singer, how the drums sounded behind the singer and snare and cymbals were in their own space within the space of a kit.

SO long story short before I got them working better (lots of tweaking)I put them up for sale and then forgot I had. Now someone wants them and now I dont know what to do. My question would be what is in the Lore price range ($700-$1000 new or used?) that is near theirs equal in dynamics, efficiency, but has imaging and staging, air, etc?  I dont need a full range as I seem to like bookshelves. Something not so clinical so lesser electronics still sound good, not show their shortcomings. I already heard them with the amazing TBI Millenia and it was a big step forward, but still not what I am looking for.

Why not stick with the Pioneers? Well I could for awhile, but back to back the Lore's are on another level in most all ways, just not imaging.

Ray

[JLM]

If interested in dipoles (open baffles), Hawthorne Silver Iris based speakers are small (12 - 18 inches square), cheap (about $400/pair with DIY baffle kits), professional build quality drivers, similar efficiency to the Lores, and remarkably deep bass.  The 10 inch drivers integrate woofer better with tweeter, the 15 inch drivers go deeper.  But dipoles do image quite differently.

[raysracing]

JLM I wonder if they do demos?  I'll check it out, thank you. I have now learned that I need to hear them in my cave. Again I do love my Lore's, but I had that moment one night listening that all I think about is how to make them image the way I want them to instead of enjoying their inherent awesomeness.

[DaveC113]

I'd recommend the Omega speakers with the RS5 driver, which is in the Super 3 series. Imaging is amazing...

http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/products.html

[JLM]

Yes, why not Omega?  Louis is knowledgable, talented woodworker, and extremely pleasant.  Single driver design advantages (coherency, imaging, deeper bass than you'd image) plus good efficiency and dynamics.  Lots of cabinet size/finish options and you can pay to have Louis customize beyond.  The smaller 3 series should be killer with a quick sub.  Unfortunately I've not heard the Omega products in many years.  And his Hoyt-Bedford line should have the fuller/ballsy sound similar to the Lores.

I doubt if Hawthorne does demos.   

[Ericus Rex]

A dumb question, but are you absolutely positive you had the polarity right on the Lores?  What you're describing doesn't sound right and could be attributed to the speakers being out of phase with each other.  If you're absolutely positive you wired them properly then intentionally wire only one speaker backwards and see if that helps.  It is possible that one of the Lores was accidentally wired out of phase at the factory.  Unlikely...but possible.

[raysracing]

A dumb question, but are you absolutely positive you had the polarity right on the Lores?  What you're describing doesn't sound right and could be attributed to the speakers being out of phase with each other.  If you're absolutely positive you wired them properly then intentionally wire only one speaker backwards and see if that helps.  It is possible that one of the Lores was accidentally wired out of phase at the factory.  Unlikely...but possible.

When I ws having some issues in the past I did have one speaker out of phase and it caused the image to be on one side, but I have since sorted that and have also done some pretty time intensive room set up alone and with a friend.  Two things I can do is sit very close (within the equilateral triangle set up) or very, very far back for a "live" concert wall of sound. Close is no good because it is fatiguing and they do not sound good up close and far away is not good because of the lack of focus, it is not doable in the room and the volume needs to be louder.

I will reverse them just in case just to hear the affect.

[PMAT]

One more tweak, try toe-in to where they intersect a foot in front of your face at your farthest listening seat. Good luck.

[raysracing]

One more tweak, try toe-in to where they intersect a foot in front of your face at your farthest listening seat. Good luck.

this I have tried and it is by far the best.

Ray

[S Clark]

"Now someone wants them and now I dont know what to do."

You offered them for sale. Sell them. There are too many good speakers out there to keep something that's not working for you.  You have something to listen to, so wait for a good buy on a used pair.

[genjamon]

Yeah, I just think the Lore sound isn't for you.  They're never going to have that completely spooky holographic imaging thing that a good pair of monitors are going to.  They image well for what they are, but if that's a high priority for you, you need another set of speakers.  I had the Lore-S in for audition for a couple weeks when they first came out, and they had a ton more soundstage depth and imaging abilities than the Lore.  You might look into a used pair of those if you can find some.  They didn't have quite the dynamics and presence of the Lore, and since that's my higher priority, I stuck with the Lore.  But they might have enough for you with a large dose extra of the imaging and soundstage development you're seeking.

I also like the suggestion of looking into Omega/Hoyt-Bedford.  They are very dynamic single driver speakers.  I owned one of their earlier versions of the hemp drivers, and they were very punchy speakers that could rock well, despite the common perception of single driver speakers.  But they were the 8" drivers.  I've never heard the smaller drivers, but suspect you'd get a ton better imaging from them while losing some of the "presence" factor important for being able to rock out. 

It all depends on your priorities, but I agree that you've given the Lores quite a bit of effort in trying to like them, and probably best to head another direction at this point if you have an interested buyer.

[raysracing]

I researched the Hoyt-Bedford/Omega Monitors and I have a silly question. How do whizzer cones reproduce the high frequencies versus a high quality tweeter? I see the frequency response says 20,000 hz, but does it sound like a multi driver speaker or does it sound flat-smooth on top? Sorry I have never heard a high quality single driver speaker.

I also looked at the dipoles; Hawthorne Silver Iris and again I am completely unfamiliar with the sound of an open baffle speaker.

I would agree I have always liked the sound of monitors.

Thanks.

[DaveC113]

All the Omegas are good, but if you want the best imaging the RS5 based speakers (no whizzers) may be the way to go. Probably a good idea to call Louis at Omega and tell him what you're looking for, what your room is like, etc... and he will be able to give you the best advise.

Also, I have heard a lot of systems, and a lot of single drivers... the Omegas are amazing for the price and won't be embarrassed by any speaker, regardless of price. Imaging is one of their strong suits and they are one of the best imaging speakers out there.

Whizzers work like a mechanical crossover, done well they are as good as the best tweeters out there imo... the RS5 drivers have no whizzers and I think the high end on them is far better than most separate tweeters.

[genjamon]

Just as a reminder, your Lores have a whizzer on the eminence full range driver.

[JLM]

"Now someone wants them and now I dont know what to do."

You offered them for sale. Sell them. There are too many good speakers out there to keep something that's not working for you.  You have something to listen to, so wait for a good buy on a used pair.

+1   If you're offer isn't terribly old you should stand by it.


I believe he owns the M-Lores (no whizzer).

[Rocket]

Hi,

If your going to sell your speakers because they don't image the way that you want you really need to demo speakers in your own system.

Good luck with your decision but be careful.  I've made lots of costly mistakes over the years.

Cheers Rod

[raysracing]

I have to say since coming to terms with the fact that they will never image like the monitors/bookshelves has been a revelation. I have never enjoyed the Lores more than this week. I am always making little tweaks too.

I did reverse polarity on left and right and even both speakers. They appear to be fine.

I would still like to build a budget pair of the Silver Iris OB speakers though.

Ray