[Dragon_vibe]

Hi All,

Wanted some opinions or comparison with the  BAT REX Tube amplifiers and the VAC 300.1 if anyone has experience with both. I will be running them with the Purity Ultra Series Pre-amp and Legacy Audio Whisper XD Speakers.

[FullRangeMan]

Unfortunately the BAT use Printed Circuit Boards.
If the VAC use point-to-point wiring stay with the VAC.
Good luck

[kevin360]

As you can see in the photo below, the VAC 300.1 also makes use of a PCB. It is a high quality PCB, but it's not point to point. I own a VAC 300.1 (which is now factory modified to include a sentry for the output tubes - will drop B+ if a tube misbehaves) and it's a superb amplifier. Of course, the BAT amps are outstanding as well - tough choice.

[FullRangeMan]

I already listen the VK75SE and four 6C33 made alot of heat even in a big room, I cant keep my hand on the amp alu table even for 1 second.

Four KT88 create far less heat.

[rpf]

I haven't heard either of the amps under consideration but I did hear the top of the line BAT 6C33 amps of several years ago and thought they were dark and un-resolving. In contrast, every VAC amp I've heard, including some of the newer ones, have been among the most accurate and musical tube amps I've ever heard. I'd love to own one.   

[kingdeezie]

Unfortunately the BAT use Printed Circuit Boards.
If the VAC use point-to-point wiring stay with the VAC.
Good luck

I think this printed circuit phobia is rubbish.

My Manley Neo Classic 250s use PCBs.

So Manley, VTL, BAT, and VAC all use PCBs but they sound like crap?

I can't believe that is completely true. How could any company charge well into the 5 figure range if that was true?

[FullRangeMan]

I think this printed circuit phobia is rubbish.

My Manley Neo Classic 250s use PCBs.

So Manley, VTL, BAT, and VAC all use PCBs but they sound like crap?

I can't believe that is completely true. How could any company charge well into the 5 figure range if that was true?

I do not mention sound quality, it was other poster mention it.
The BAT VK75SE I listen was great in treble and tonal balance, but I expected more small ambience recovery.

A PCB amp is a frozen project, it can not be modified, the PCB will be cooked with time, PCB solder tracks my evaporate in a short circuit, redo solder tracks is difficult.
Otherwise anyone can buy a run of wire in a hardware shop and solder this wire with success.
This is a cooked PCB from a Conrad Johnson Premier11:

About the astronomical prices I also cant understand it, maybe due lack of info always have been some audiophiles happy to pay it 

[JakeJ]

Here's my .02.  I have heard BAT gear and I own VAC gear and I agree with rpf and fullrangeman's  opinions as to the sound of BAT gear.  It is dark, lacking in detail or resolution, plus it does not have the midrange bloom that we love about tubes.  The VAC gear does use PCBs for all their designs so I also agree with kingdeezie and rpf's opinions that PCBs are just fine as far as sound quality.  It's all about circuit design.  Regarding that CJ with the cooked PCB, that is due to a component going bad because PCBs do not cook on their own (OK, unless the trace is woefully undersized) and components can go bad and fry in a point-to-point amp!

Do check out the VAC website as you will find there is an upgrade path for most of the equipment they have ever produced.  Mine has had some of those upgrades but I bought them that way so I have no knowledge of the original sound.  I just know that it is the best sound quality I have ever heard or owned

So...to the OP, I think it's interesting that three posters to your thread find BAT to be less than stellar in sound quality and two of us having experience with VAC and found it to be better in our opinions.  Personally I will likely never part with my VAC kit.  Hmm...maybe that's more like .03 worth of opinion

[FullRangeMan]

Here's my .02.  I have heard BAT gear and I own VAC gear and I agree with rpf and fullrangeman's  opinions as to the sound of BAT gear.  It is dark, lacking in detail or resolution, plus it does not have the midrange bloom that we love about tubes.  The VAC gear does use PCBs for all their designs so I also agree with kingdeezie and rpf's opinions that PCBs are just fine as far as sound quality.  It's all about circuit design.  Regarding that CJ with the cooked PCB, that is due to a component going bad because PCBs do not cook on their own (OK, unless the trace is woefully undersized) and components can go bad and fry in a point-to-point amp!

Do check out the VAC website as you will find there is an upgrade path for most of the equipment they have ever produced.  Mine has had some of those upgrades but I bought them that way so I have no knowledge of the original sound.  I just know that it is the best sound quality I have ever heard or owned

So...to the OP, I think it's interesting that three posters to your thread find BAT to be less than stellar in sound quality and two of us having experience with VAC and found it to be better in our opinions.  Personally I will likely never part with my VAC kit.  Hmm...maybe that's more like .03 worth of opinion

QUOTE: It is dark, lacking in detail or resolution, plus it does not have the midrange bloom that we love about tubes.
I afraid this happen when two or more 6C33 are used at output, with a Single Ended 6C33 the midrange is better if the output transformer is good.
Maybe the Audio Mirror 6C33 are better in the midrange even being inexpensive.

Quote: Regarding that CJ with the cooked PCB, that is due to a component going bad because PCBs do not cook on their own (OK, unless the trace is woefully undersized) and components can go bad and fry in a point-to-point amp!
I must be a giant component as the brown footprint is large.
I was think this PCB cooked due lack of proper cooling.

This is a Lampizator BAT amp review:
http://lampizator.eu/AMPLIFIERS/BAT/VK60.html

[Dragon_vibe]

How about the Atma-Sphere Amps specially the MA2. Yes loads of Tube but that's approx. 500 dollars per mono to change.  A few friend recommended BAT Tube Amps specially the REX, that's pretty new on the scene.

[FullRangeMan]

How about the Atma-Sphere Amps specially the MA2. Yes loads of Tube but that's approx. 500 dollars per mono to change.  A few friend recommended BAT Tube Amps specially the REX, that's pretty new on the scene.

Wow, great amp, great sound quality, very reliable, low priced tubes.
Ralph Karstern do some demo test in shows:
He short circuit the amps output with a quarter coin and nothing happen(the amp dont burn or explode) after the coin removed the music go on perfectly as before.

Other: Ralph replace the output tubes with the amps power on and running music, and no damage happen.
Atma-Sphere amp is a winner.

[James Romeyn]

...This is a cooked PCB from a Conrad Johnson Premier11:

About the astronomical prices I also cant understand it, maybe due lack of info always have been some audiophiles happy to pay it 

Wow!  Your pizza is ready sir!   

How old was that amp?  Is the burnt PCB just from normal use, or did the burn result from a bad tube or bad circuit component?     

[FullRangeMan]

I unaware the details, I copy this image from the web.
On the original forum may be more info.

[Captainhemo]

wow,  I'd think there must have be another  issue,  I'd hope that didn't occur from   "normal wear"

-jay

[JakeJ]

I'll second the positive recommendation for Atma-Sphere with the caveat that they don't work well with all speakers so you'll need to do your home work.  Having just looked up the Legacy Whisper XD on Leagacy's website I would say with their efficiency they won't need anywhere near the power the MA-2 delivers unless you need the addition heating the amps would provide  , or like to listen at rock concert volume levels.  A pair of M-60's would likely be all you need since the Whispers have dedicated 500 Watt amps to cover the bass region and sport 95 dB efficiency rating.

If I were you I would just call or email Ralph Karsten and ask him how well they would work with your Whispers.  Might just be a match made in heaven.

Again having visited Legacy's website I would love to hear a pair of the Whisper's!  Impressive specs, impressive looks and I'll bet impressive sound.  Just curious, do yours have the new AMT tweeters?

[FullRangeMan]

Wow, great amp, great sound quality, very reliable, low priced tubes.
Ralph Karstern do some demo test in shows:
He short circuit the amps output with a quarter coin and nothing happen(the amp dont burn or explode) after the coin removed the music go on perfectly as before.

Other: Ralph replace the output tubes with the amps power on and running music, and no damage happen.
Atma-Sphere amp is a winner.

Oops, I will quote myself for a correction.
These demo test from Ralph are not in HiFi shows, but special for this factory tour at this web magazine:
http://www.soundstagelive.com/factorytours/atmasphere/
Ralph Karsten is very friendly on email indeed.

[nickd]

+1 for VAC. Expensive but the sound is hard to beat. Stellar reputation too.

[c1ferrari]

Hi,

I've listened to a system/room with VAC electronics and would describe the experience as excellent 
I've listened to a system/room with VAC electronics and would describe the experience as dismal
FWIW, I have a system/room with BAT electronics and have been satisfied for many years 

With that preface, I would suggest you audition with one brand of electronics -- Purity, if at all possible 

I'll have the opportunity to listen to the BAT REX preamp and Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk. 3.2 preamp for an extended period.
I'm looking forward to the listening sessions 

The Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse, along with a VAC pre, perhaps Ren Sig IIA, are on my short list to audition.  I'm interested in a preamp that will acquit itself splendidly with my current rig AND some ATC active loudspeakers.

Enjoy the journey 

Very best regards,

Sam

[Dragon_vibe]

I have spent 2 weeks with the VAC 300.1 as sweet as it sounds I preferred the Atma MA60 in sound wise. Both were playing on a high efficiency Speaker. So now have decided to settle for the Atma. VAC is nice but its not fast enough for me. I wanted something that gives me the pros of the Transistor amplifiers but with a Tube natural feeling to it. Not yet tried the Bat cant seem to locate this anywhere in my location.