Llano Design Group, anyone?

covermye · « **on:** 28 Oct 2003, 01:17 pm »

Does anybody have any experience with Llano Deisgn Group's amplifiers? Does Llano even exist any more, as I'm not able to find a website for them. www.llanodesign.com takes you to www.whiteaudio.com, which seem like pretty interesting amps in their own right. At any rate, I saw this listing on Audiogon and wondered if anybody could provide any guidance on how this impressively-built amplifier might drive a pair of VMPS SuperTower/R SE's...

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1071798136

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 02:11 pm »

You might check out the archives of Audio Asylum. Randy White did business as White Audio Labs before starting Llano Designs. I suspect the whiteaudio website is just an updated address (the physical location has always been Lubbock Tx).

Scanning the AA archives, the reputation seems to be great-sounding gear but less-than-stellar customer service???

EDS_ · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 02:58 pm »

I can speak about this topic a bit.
First I own quite a lot of Llano gear-FWiiW. I met Randy at his Lubbock shop once when out there for a football game.

The site that you foundd titled White Audio is Randy's new site. I bet he simply kept the site name from the White Audio days.

Randy's gear is wonderful. His gear is well built physically but he does not waste money on looks. The innards usually offer pure class A SET 9 pin mini-tube voltage stages and terminal block arrangements of MOSFETS yielding a single current stage per channel. Randy does make a few all discrete amps too.

The power Randy's big amps is stunning. But the killer is that they are powerful and delicate at once.

I have not heard any of the newest Phoenix products.

Between his father's ill health and another business venture Randy has essentially closed Llano until Jan. or maybe even Feb. of '04.

As far a customer service goes Randy has been wonderful to me. Once a power switch burned out on one of my amps. Randy and I decided that I could replace it-Rany overnighted the part and talked me through the process over the phone. However, I have heard/read reports that Randy can be short tempered and gruff.
IMO his amps offer Krell/Levinson level performance at much less cost---plus his amps offer the best tweak of all-tube rolling.

If you plan to buy one used be careful of one thing.......more than once I've seen people offer Llano gear for sale and claim that their amp has the "upgraded coupling caps". The upgraded caps are Hovland Musicaps (always bright yellow). The standard caps are orange. The coupling caps are mounted directly onto the same boards as each tube.
This is one instance where the coupling cap really does make a big difference.

Please excuse the typos and poor English I'm in a huge hurry.
Later.

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Oct 2003, 03:12 pm »

EDS_,
of course your actual experience with Randy and his gear is worth far more than my heard-it-from a-friend -who heard-it- from..... experience.

When I mentioned customer service, I was thinking about it in the largest of contexts---several AA inmates complained about e-mails going unanswered, phone calls not answered etc. There was mention of the family illness impacting business---while that's understandable, it could certainly be a pain from the customer's point of view. There were also a number of posters who shared your opinion--great gear and perfectly good interpersonal contact (several echoed your experience of free/cheap upgrades).

I guess it's just important that covermye have an idea of what might or might not be involved in buying the Llano amp.

EDS_ · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Oct 2003, 02:22 am »

Tonto....you brought up several great points.
As to unanswered phone and email contact--- Randy is a tad on the "nutty-professor" side. More than once I've had to call him 3-4x to get him.
However, when contact is made he is like a long lost brother--really nice and refreshingly honest. (At least in my doings with him)---

He does indeed offer upgrades for the hard cost of the upgrade or somtimes for nothing.

I'll do business with him again.

LadyDog · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Oct 2003, 04:55 pm »

Covermye,
EDS nailed it. Having driven a pair of VMPS RM2's to insane levels with Randy's Trinity 300 you should have no problem with power. Honestly, I am not sure there is a speaker made that would cause the Trinity to break a sweat. His amps easily compete with the big boys. A perfect marriage combining the best of both worlds, tubes and solid state. By the way, there is also a Trinity 300 available on audiogon.

His description about Randy is also very valid. If you ever do get a hold of him you will literally spend hours chating about equipment, music, or even fishing.

My only concern with Llano is not the sound quality or customer service but the potential resale value. Everybody seems to be taking a bath nowadays on used equipment but since Llano is not very well know there may be a limited market. With that being said though, I would buy Randy's amps again in a heartbeat. It's all about the sound!

Best of luck.
Regards,
Jeff

mshale · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jul 2004, 09:35 pm »

I've had extensive dealings with Randy White of Llano Design for over two years. That was how long it took to get my money ($2000) back from him when he did not deliver on a promised Trinity 300 amp. I was in contact with three other people who ordered amps that weren't delivered and they were out a combined total of $9000. Only one of them has told me that he received his money back: two-and-a-half years later. My last contact with Randy was in April, 2004. I talked with him on the phone and he said that problems with settling his father's estate and serious health issues (heart) caused him to shut down his business. Having spoken with him before the health problems started, his voice clearly revealed someone who was quite ill. He did not know if he would start up again or not.

I have several long posts on Audio Asylum detailing my saga with Randy and Llano Design, so I will not go into that here other than to say that his business acumen is zero. Even his first check refunding my money (after my waiting for two years) bounced. Never having had the chance to hear one of his amps, I can't say how they sound, but enough people who have good ears attest to their wonderful sound quality. People who have them or buy them on the used market may find themselves with problems, however, should the amps ever break down. Randy developed a proprietary circuit for use in the Trinity and Phoenix series of amps, and there are no published schematics. A good technician can probably figure it out, but good technicians aren't as plentiful as they used to be, especially if you live in a non-metropolitan area. Sending it back to Randy, it seems to me, isn't an option anymore.

If Randy does start a business again, I would not buy from him after my experience. It's too bad because I really like supporting the small independent manufacturers, and this makes me gunshy of ever dealing with anyone who hasn't been in business for a couple of decades.

ABEX · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Jul 2004, 10:36 pm »

I have heard both or read both types of opinions on Llano and White Labs.

Would like to own some of hois designs if I were sure I was going to be keeping my speakers(which I will) and that they are synergistic with your speakers .Which the older models are.

Alot of complaints are based on waiting for their orders. If you are going to buy a specilaized piece of gear the wait is usually worth it.If you know the outcome and quality is not to be found elsewhere. I usually hold on to my components for more than 5yrs..

Can someone give me a website?

TIA

mshale · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jul 2004, 06:40 pm »

Randy's website was taken down at least five months ago. If he resumes his business, I guess he will put up another website.

Mark