[joegator81]

I was wondering if anybody has run into a NO RETURNS policy on new vinyl from brick and mortar stores? This is of course for vinyl that was in the wrapper and ordered new by the dealer from the distributer but was defective for one reason or another. I have come across two dealers personally that finally accepted the return and gave store credit but it makes me uneasy buying new vinyl in the future from them when I can return hassle free from online sites. Both of these stores said their reasons for this policy is that their suppliers/distributers do not credit the stores for defective items therefore forcing the stores to eat the losses. I asked the owner of a different local record store whether this was true for him as well considering that he has always been fair with defective records and always replaced or given store credit and he said that he receives full credit from the suppliers when the record is defective. So does it depend on the supplier/distributer?

[Devil Doc]

I spend a lot of money at my B$M. It wouldn't behoove the owner to piss me off.

Doc

[joegator81]

You would think these stores wouldn't want to lose business and I think that was why in each case they eventually caved and gave me store credit. When the second incident occurred just the other day, I spent an extra $16 (chump change, I know) on used records. Unfortunately, I won't be purchasing new from him in the future unless its one of those uncontrollable impulse buys and the record was pressed and packaged by reputable sources (RTI, etc)

[Elizabeth]

Yes it depends on the distributor AND the quantity of purchases..
Dealers get discounts for quantity, and many are allowed to 'return' a percentage of the full purchase as defectives.
It is not very many. And i am certain smaller dealers do not get any deals like that.

When i worked at a 'One Stop" for a few months in college, they had a huge range of discounts for volume buyers.. The more a store bought the bigger the discount across the board, and the more stuff they could return. (and the more free stuff they got, like demos.. Even the One Stop staff got free stuff all the time, the higher up and more sales, the more they collected.  I got in trouble because i was given a demo 'out of pecking order' by the boss, and thus (unknowingly) was hated by a guy I could not afford to piss off, I annoyed him and got fired. really revenge for that demo Lp I was given. Crazy.)

A percentage of unopened, and opened stock could be returned, more leeway for big buyers..
For big buyers.. they could do whatever they wanted basically.
 Where small buyers got the shaft, both in cost and returns. The big buyers were treated like royalty, the small ones a neccessary evil.

And I am certain it depends on the distributor the store can buy from too.

As fror a small store, the shipping cost for small buys eats up the profit. and having to pay return shipping for a return even more. So I bet some of the stores claim no returns when they actually could return stuff. It just still costs them too much money. IF accepting returns means getting closer to going out of business...?? Tough call.

For internet dealers. On Amazon returns are a requirement of using the site Amazon Marketplace.
So i think since they do not need a storefront and those expenses.. they can swallow returns. Also they can then sell the item as used if they are stuck with it, and still not lose money..

[joegator81]

Thanks Elizabeth, I thought that it had to have something to do with the distributers. And some of the dealer specific things you mentioned like shipping costs and size etc make since. The reason I was so surprised is that one of the shops that doesn't do returns has been in business a very long time and mentioned that he owns his storefront so the overhead cost is much lower. He also has a no credit card policy unless you spend a certain amount so i'm almost inclined to think he may just be a cheapskate. The other store is very new and a good bit smaller so I can understand why he may not be allowed to return much to the distributer.

[roscoeiii]

I am fortunate enough to live somewhere with a number of record stores. For new vinyl, I only buy from stores that allow at least exchanges on bad pressings (For used LPs, I also try to go to stores that allow returns for store credits on LPs that skip). If that wasn't available, I'd be buying my new vinyl online from retailers that offer exchanges. Bad pressings happen, but there is no reason we should be stuck with them.

[jazzcourier]

          Everything Elizabeth points out is true! As one who worked in the retail record biz, from soup to nuts, for over 35 years,i would have to add that SOME stores might re-shrink these defects and re-sell them.This was pretty common.An inexpensive plastic wrapper with a heat seal press and a heating gun,even a hair dryer will tighten the wrap to conform to the record.I had several record labels and pressed over five thousand records and never got a defective record returned to me from a distributor.This was crumbs in the big picture of record manufacturing,but there were plenty other ways to get screwed over by distributors.I recently purchased 10 new lps from an online retailer and 5 were warped and were returned after a song and dance of return authorization emails, re-mailing,awaiting confirmation  of receipt and getting replacements.The whole process took so long i eventually insisted that they refund the charge to my credit card.I also made them refund the amount for return shipping.The whole process took over a month,and this was one of the more reputable and competent online shops.
         Everybody loves to bring back their defective record to the local shop and be questioned like some kind of scam artist....is it your turntable? is it your needle? This is enough to send you screaming into the streets.My usual response is i just replaced the batteries in the turntable before i took it to the beach,that one always works for warped records.   

[joegator81]

          Everything Elizabeth points out is true! As one who worked in the retail record biz, from soup to nuts, for over 35 years,i would have to add that SOME stores might re-shrink these defects and re-sell them.This was pretty common.An inexpensive plastic wrapper with a heat seal press and a heating gun,even a hair dryer will tighten the wrap to conform to the record.I had several record labels and pressed over five thousand records and never got a defective record returned to me from a distributor.This was crumbs in the big picture of record manufacturing,but there were plenty other ways to get screwed over by distributors.I recently purchased 10 new lps from an online retailer and 5 were warped and were returned after a song and dance of return authorization emails, re-mailing,awaiting confirmation  of receipt and getting replacements.The whole process took so long i eventually insisted that they refund the charge to my credit card.I also made them refund the amount for return shipping.The whole process took over a month,and this was one of the more reputable and competent online shops.
         Everybody loves to bring back their defective record to the local shop and be questioned like some kind of scam artist....is it your turntable? is it your needle? This is enough to send you screaming into the streets.My usual response is i just replaced the batteries in the turntable before i took it to the beach,that one always works for warped records.   

He asked me if there was something wrong with my needle. Then wouldn't I be returning the other brand new record I bought from him that same day??? So of course he put the record on his very very very........... cheap turntable, cartridge, speaker setup and played the record. Wouldn't you know it, the bad pressing noise was buried below all of the noise added by his system. Still, I was given a refund, but the "it sounds fine to me" was about to really put me off. Of course I had to try to explain that my system is revealing enough to hear pressing noise (a distorted hash and static sound on both sides) without sounding like an elitist snob.

[mswobo]

I got a bad copy of a new album on a BMG label...wow it was horrible, lots of drop outs. I brought it back to the store, a primarily used store with some new and he said music isn't guaranteed. I am a polite customer so I didn't threaten I would shop elsewhere.

Moral of the story:

He hasn't seen me since and my new "guy" is getting my 300 bucks a month or so. After a few trips there he told me on any new or used record I buy if I am not happy bring it back, even if I don't like the music. Sounds like sound business. Never have taken him up on it but he asks me every week if I was happy with latest purchases.

[neobop]

The small retailer is stuck between a rock and a hard place.  He/she can't return the records (reasons above) and has to either take a hard line with the customer or give back money/inventory they can ill afford to.  Chances are, that store owner is in that business for the love of music and isn't exactly getting rich selling software (LP, CD, DVD) in the age of download. 

The store owner also has extreme expenses, especially compared to an on-line retailer.  Rent or property tax, business taxes, salaries, utilities, etc, all make up a giant nut that has to be met each month, just to break even.  One retailer decides to adopt a no return policy in order to survive.  Another one doesn't want to alienate a customer that spends $300/month and acts accordingly.
Such is life.

In the stereo store in the '80s, we sold records.   Even though we were a high end store, we basically discounted everything - one of the reasons the store was so successful.  In keeping with that, I used to price the records approx 10 - 15% below retail and accepted returns on unplayable records.  There were quite a few, not a hugh number but enough to cut into the profit margin.  I'm not sure if we lost money on the records but we didn't make enough money for it to be worthwhile.  If we were a record store we would have gone out of business.  The records were worthwhile for us because they were a draw.  We made money on stereo equipment.
neo