[Derockster]

Hi All, I just bought a VPI Scout and am looking for some recommendations on cartridges.


Regards


Cleaton Parris

[galyons]

What do you have for phono stage? MC or MM?  What is the rest of the system? What kind of music do you like? Budget?

Cheers,
Geary

[Gzerro]

Cleaton,

Knowing the answers to Geary's questions would help alot, but in the meantime I will just share my experiences with the Scout for what they are worth (YMMV and all of that).

I primarily listen to 50s jazz and classic rock, with a sprinkling of just about everything else.

I have used 3 cartridges on my Scout over the past couple of years, all of which are typical recommendations from VPI. VPI recommends Dynavectors and Grado's as good matches. If you use a cartridge less than 9-10 grams in weight you may benefit from getting the VPI headshell weight or Soundsmith cartridge mounting screws to bring the total cartridge/hardware weight into that range.

Soundsmith VPI Zephyr ($999 list) - This is my favorite, but at times the most frustrating of the three. Very fast and dynamic - you can feel the air coming off the head of the kick drum. Sharp transients can be almost startling. Very good detail and realistic, especially trumpet and saxaphone. The downside is finicky setup. Very small adjustments are clearly audible, so it took me some time to dial in. This was a bit much for me at first as I didn't have alot of experience, but in hindsight a great learning experience.

Dynavector 20x2L ($850 list) - I am currently using this cartridge and like it very much. It has perhaps a bit more detail than the zephyr, your hear instrument delays and subtle nuances a bit more clearly. It doesn't have the dynamic punch of the Zephyr and lacks a bit at the very low end, but overall smoother and more balanced. It was very easy to setup, and a slightly better tracker then the Zephyr. Small adjustments to setup don't seem to be as significant. There is also a high output (20X2H) version if you don't have an MC phono stage.

Grado Sonata ($600) - It has been a while so my memory is fading a bit. This is the cartridge that came with the table when I pushed it (used). It is more colored than the other two and has a more rounded, warm sound. Great with some old jazz recordings, but not the last word in detail and resolution. It was also pretty easy to setup, but not quite as good a tracker as the Dynavector.

On the more affordable side, VPI recommends the Grado Gold and the Dynavector 10X5. On the other end of the spectrum higher end Dynavectors such as the XX2. I have no experience with any of these.

I hope that is helpful.

Tom

[Scottdazzle]

Cleaton,

Knowing the answers to Geary's questions would help alot, but in the meantime I will just share my experiences with the Scout for what they are worth (YMMV and all of that).

I primarily listen to 50s jazz and classic rock, with a sprinkling of just about everything else.

I have used 3 cartridges on my Scout over the past couple of years, all of which are typical recommendations from VPI. VPI recommends Dynavectors and Grado's as good matches. If you use a cartridge less than 9-10 grams in weight you may benefit from getting the VPI headshell weight or Soundsmith cartridge mounting screws to bring the total cartridge/hardware weight into that range.

Soundsmith VPI Zephyr ($999 list) - This is my favorite, but at times the most frustrating of the three. Very fast and dynamic - you can feel the air coming off the head of the kick drum. Sharp transients can be almost startling. Very good detail and realistic, especially trumpet and saxaphone. The downside is finicky setup. Very small adjustments are clearly audible, so it took me some time to dial in. This was a bit much for me at first as I didn't have alot of experience, but in hindsight a great learning experience.

Dynavector 20x2L ($850 list) - I am currently using this cartridge and like it very much. It has perhaps a bit more detail than the zephyr, your hear instrument delays and subtle nuances a bit more clearly. It doesn't have the dynamic punch of the Zephyr and lacks a bit at the very low end, but overall smoother and more balanced. It was very easy to setup, and a slightly better tracker then the Zephyr. Small adjustments to setup don't seem to be as significant. There is also a high output (20X2H) version if you don't have an MC phono stage.

Grado Sonata ($600) - It has been a while so my memory is fading a bit. This is the cartridge that came with the table when I pushed it (used). It is more colored than the other two and has a more rounded, warm sound. Great with some old jazz recordings, but not the last word in detail and resolution. It was also pretty easy to setup, but not quite as good a tracker as the Dynavector.

On the more affordable side, VPI recommends the Grado Gold and the Dynavector 10X5. On the other end of the spectrum higher end Dynavectors such as the XX2. I have no experience with any of these.

I hope that is helpful.

Tom

My experience was just about the polar opposite of Gzerro's.  I found the Dynavector to be harsh, edgy, and generally unpleasant to listen to.  The Zephyr is a big improvement in my system - much smoother sounding and easier to set up.  I have a Classic 1 that I modified to the Classic 2 with the on-the-fly adjustable vta.

[Gzerro]

Funny how one persons "more detailed" can quickly turn into anothers "harsh and edgy". I agree with you that the Dynavector is on the bright side, but I didn't find it objectionable in my room.

Perhaps the Zephyr is a better match to the 10.5" Classic arm then the 9" Scout arm for setup? Or we just have different preferences.

At least we can agree the Zephyr is a step up, albiet for different reasons

[Derockster]

Hi All, sorry it took me so long to reply but I have been extremely busy,the company I work for was in the process of an ISO Audit. I am in the process of putting together a system so here is where I am at present.

VPI Scout it came with an Ortofon 2m Red.

No phono as yet, looking at a Greame Slee, suggestions are welcome.

Legacy High Current preamp.

Bat Vk 60 amplifier, feeding a pair of Near 10m speakers.

I listen to mainly Jazz,some blues or classical at times.

[Derockster]

I am looking at an MM cart and stage. budget around $800.00.

[neobop]

Current user claims of superior bang for your buck include Vista phono ($300), and Hagerman Bugle ($129- kit, and up).

Both of these are said to take on most any phono up to $1K range including Slee Gold.  The Vista can be loaded for any cart and gain including MC.
Bugle can be configured for either MM or MC.  Kit is said to be difficult so assembled is an option.

With a budget of $800 for both, it's important to make a judicious selection.  The phono stage is very important and you should check out user opinions and comparisons. 

Any particular performance you value in a cart?  Perhaps fast and detailed or sweet and mellow?  Great midrange, big or tight bass? 
neo

[dlaloum]

Also if wanting to play in the MM space - adjustable loading is of substantial value in tuning things in - resistance from around 20k to 100k ohm and capacitance from 0pf to 200pf - or facility for loading plugs.

Otherwise you need to make sure that the phono stage and system capacitance are a good match for the cartridge you are looking at... AT's usually like 100 to 150pf, Ortofon's 400 to 600pf, it varies all over the place from brand to brand and model to model!

I believe DB systems make a well regarded phono stage with all the required adjustability at a good price...

I believe that table comes with the JMW9T arm? - I believe its effective mass is between 8g and 10g - but being a damped unipivot it should be relatively flexible - it should be perfect for cartridges like the Audio Technica MM's, Ortofon 2M series, Grado's - (highish but not too high compliance) - and with slightly massier cartidges (or the addition of a bit of mass!) mid compliance cartridges like the CA's, AT7V/95/110, Nagaoka's. Also the soundsmith cartridges are an option (selectable compliance! choose when ordering).

My personal take on cartridges - look for cantilever quality first (lowest mass possible!), Needle profile second, cartridge body design last - and make sure it matches your phono stage and capacitance for loading or choose an adjustable phono stage!

Given your budget and my own preferences I would opt for a DB systems phono stage, and an Audio Technica AT150MLx.
This is a great value cartridge with Boron cantilever and MicroLine stylus - the tough thing with these is getting the capacitive load right - 200pf will be too much, 150pf is recommended.
To adjust to taste, you may want to slightly lower the resistive loading as well... AT's often sound better in the 35k to 42k loading zone rather than the standard 47k Ohm.

Another great option - Grado Gold body fitted with an 8MZ, MCZ or TLZ stylus (depending on budget)  - competitive with the TOTL Grado woodies, at a much much lower price - relatively capacitance insensitive (easier to optimise!) - but likely to require a resistive loading of between 10k and 20k Ohm to get the best from it.

These are just two alternatives from a very wide selection of good options.
I am not ignoring the Nagaoka's, or Ortofon's, but they do tend to be pricier for similar performance levels, and including the phono stage within an $800 budget tends to focus things on the cartridges with the very best bang for buck. Which is to say the budget is sufficient to enter the top tier of MM performance, but only with the best value cartridges and phono stages...

hope that helps

bye for now

David