[fado]

Would someone be willing to provide a brief overview of what a DSD DAC does and how a standard HiRez system using mostly downloaded 96/24 files would benefit? I have no SACD's.

[ted_b]

A DSD-capable DAC plays both the more-popular PCM format (16/44 redbook and 24 bit hirez, usually up to 192k or 384k) as well as the DSD format (1 bit/2.8mhz, often called DSD64, and sometimes it's 2x counterpart aka DSD128).  DSD is a 1 bit Hirez format popularized by SACDs but until recently only found on protected SACD disc (i.e unable to be ripped).  The format was popular enough with artists and recoding studios that thousands of native DSD recordings (and thousands more analog-to-DSD masters) were made.  The native DSD market has some momentum and now has sites that offer DSD downloads.  There is also a DIY capability to rip DSD off of SACDs with hacked PS3's (I wrote a guide about it).

Net/net, without any DSD material you have no need for a DSD-capable DAC per se.  However, since more and more DACs are being marketed that have DSD capability you might end up buying one just for its PCM decoding.  That's fine too.

Here is a repository of all (added every day) that is DSD:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgVhKcl_3lHfdFVyenBBNjNpQ2lieG81WGpqQTNfVUE#gid=0

[Napalm]

A DSD DAC will transform into analog signal a digital DSD stream. Which Sony made sure that no SACD player will ever output.

So in general they're as useful as a carpet fitter's ladder.

[ted_b]

A DSD DAC will transform into analog signal a digital DSD stream. Which Sony made sure that no SACD player will ever output.

So in general they're as useful as a carpet fitter's ladder.

I'm sorry you feel that way.  It's a shame you've not been keeping up with what's going on in DSD, but yet needed to post here.

[ted_b]

Another growing DSD sub category is vinyl ripping.  Korg has popularized their portable DSD recorders for fans of vinyl ripping/archiving.  It seems many believe that the DSD format does a great job of transcoding their vinyl, and now that DSD DACs are here the results are very promising.  Sony, by the way, developed DSD for archiving, and several major studios have their whole catalog archived in DSD.  Time will tell if they will offer them via downloads, etc.   in the meantime we have boutique labels like Channel Classics, Blue Coast Records, Premonition Records, etc offering their native recordings.  At CES Sony showed a glimpse of their own catalog that would be first to hit the online downloads, but the actual steps have yet to be taken.

[Napalm]

[...]It's a shame you've not been keeping up with what's going on in DSD[...]

I'm game for a refresh.... Please name 3 recording studios that have the tools to record-mix-master-press in native DSD without ever converting to PCM as an intermediate format. I promise I'll buy a SACD from each of them and evaluate the results.

[Phil A]

I'm game for a refresh.... Please name 3 recording studios that have the tools to record-mix-master-press in native DSD without ever converting to PCM as an intermediate format. I promise I'll buy a SACD from each of them and evaluate the results.

There's been many developments of the last couple of years - here's one - http://www.recordingmag.com/news/display/501.html

[Napalm]

Phil - very nice. Does it have a compressor too? Where could I get a SACD recorded using just this?

[ted_b]

I'm game for a refresh.... Please name 3 recording studios that have the tools to record-mix-master-press in native DSD without ever converting to PCM as an intermediate format. I promise I'll buy a SACD from each of them and evaluate the results.

Chandos
Channel Classics
Pentatone

In addition, any label using the Sonoma workstation does all mastering in DSD.  Even labels like Blue Coast, who record to 2" 24 track analog tape then do everything else in Sonoma, exhibit almost perfect transients and harmonics, a trademark of native DSDs ultra high sample rate.  However, sans Sonoma or Grimm, even dropping down to EQ, then back up is usually not anything close to as detrimental as a full DSD-to-PCM conversion.  Ouch.   

[Napalm]

Chandos
Channel Classics
Pentatone

In addition, any label using the Sonoma workstation does all mastering in DSD.  Even labels like Blue Coast, who record to 2" 24 track analog tape then do everything else in Sonoma, exhibit almost perfect transients and harmonics, a trademark of native DSDs ultra high sample rate.  However, sans Sonoma or Grimm, even dropping down to EQ, then back up is usually not anything close to as detrimental as a full DSD-to-PCM conversion.  Ouch.

I'll follow your advice. I wasn't interested that much in listening to the Kansas City Chorale anyway.... 

[ted_b]

Don't like classical, huh?  Seems you are possibly (going out on a limb here!!!!) not a DSD DAC candidate, and just posting to be devils advocate.    DSD is historically more abundant on the classical music side, as well as a great vehicle for folks like Analog Productions' wonderful analog-to-DSD masterings of the great jazz releases from Verve, Prestige and Blue Note.  Not a Miles or Adderley fan either?  Coltrane?  Art Pepper?  Grant Green?  Ike Quebec?

My biggest justification for DSD DACs is this:
there are 7200 SACDs out there, almost 2500 of them native DSD.  Another 1500 are the analog-to-DSD remasters.  Of the remaining (large group) PCM-based ones, some are our only current hope of hearing HiRez versions.  It's a huge find.  Are there that many native HiRez 24/192 recordings available to us?  It's but one format, yes, but it provides yet one more vehicle to hear what is our goal:  the closest approximation to the master tape of any given recording.  If it was recorded in PCM, let me hear it in PCM; if it was recorded in DSD, let me hear it in DSD.  Analog?  Well, the jury is out, but I am blown away by what the analog remasterings of Kevin Gray and Steve Hoffman have done in DSD. 

[Phil A]

I'll follow your advice. I wasn't interested that much in listening to the Kansas City Chorale anyway.... 

http://hiresdig.blogspot.com/2012/11/david-elias-window-dsd-reissue.html

[Napalm]

Don't like classical, huh?   

I actually do, but most of the time it's Decca or Deutsche Grammophon that manage to have recordings that I would be interested in.  CD / SACD / BluRay doesn't matter I can play them all and the format is no guarantee of the quality of the performance / recording. Except for standard DVD, that one sounds quite bad if there's no LPCM audio track.

But from here to the gymnastics of extracting a DSD track from a protected device just in order to play it on a different DAC than the one in the SACD player.... sorry Ted but I have better uses for my time. FWIW I haven't "ripped" my CD collection either although that would be quite easy (but still time consuming).

From my POV an external DAC would be something to add between the CD/SACD player and the preamp. It might (or might not) improve CD playback but it definitely won't work with SACDs. So why bother whether the DAC can play or not DSD, it wouldn't make any difference.

OTOH, a carpet installer working for a die hard audiophile may need to carpet the ceiling too (acoustic treatments!) and the ladder would suddenly become useful. 

[ted_b]

I have better uses for my time than be belittled, Napalm.  No one said you need a DSD DAC, nor asked you to post here.  I've tried to be diplomatic, but running out of patience.

[rhandmj]

You seem to suffer fools much better than most, in my opinion.

[Napalm]

You seem to suffer fools much better than most, in my opinion.

I think he actually likes them especially when they're of the audiophool variety.